quatermass

Just a thought....

If Excel is suppose to be a kind of 'liquid co2' where does the Carbon come from?

The above image clearly doesn't have any Carbon in it.

And polycycloglutaracetal doesn't seem to have C either.

epicfish

The molecular formula for glutaraldehyde is C5H8O2. There's carbon and oxygen in there. =) In the picture above, each "bend" in the line represents CH2.

SPI Supplies - MSDS Safety - Glutaraldehyde, Aqueous Solution

Under "Section 10: Stability and Reactivity",
Hazardous Decomposition of Products: carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide.

Also, from Entrez PubMed
"Material balance studies of glutaraldehyde in a river water-sediment system demonstrate that glutaraldehyde preferred to remain in the water phase. Glutaraldehyde was metabolized rapidly under both aerobic and anaerobic conditions...Under aerobic conditions, glutaraldehyde was first biotransformed into the intermediate glutaric acid, which then underwent further metabolism ultimately to carbon dioxide. Metabolism of glutaraldehyde under anaerobic conditions did not proceed ultimately to methane, but terminated with the formation of 1,5-pentanediol via 5-hydroxypentanal as an intermediate."

It eventually ends up as carbon dioxide as a product of biometabolism.

quatermass

Many thanks for the answer, it was puzzling me why the formula diagram appeared to show no carbon in it.

I'd last done O level Chemisty in 1976 and I'm sure they didn't cover jaggy lines representing other elements back then!

P.S.
So what does the two lines attached to the oxygen represent?

vollman1

Doesn't it symbolize a double bond?

epicfish

Yep, represents a double bond from carbon to oxygen.

swifty1

Thanks to everyone for such a great thread. I was in danger of ripping out my new 24g planted tank because of the dreaded BBA but having read every page of this topic decided to try Excel.

I've overdosed 2x- 3x the recommended amount for 3 days now and the BBA is turning red which I hope means its dying. Additionally, my SAE's are now starting to eat it (didn't touch it before) so although not out of the woods yet, its looking very positive!

WRT Excel, does anyone know of a supplier who will ship Excel to UK at wholesale prices? - the cost in the US is much cheaper than here - I'd even be willing to import a fair quantity of it and either keep it long term or take a punt on selling any excess here - maybe an opportunity if any supplier/member is interested?

e-mail or pm me if interested or know a potential source.

gpodio

Yep, turning red/pink is a good sign, it's hurting! I noticed the same thing with SAE's and other fish, it seems to become more tasty as it dies off... My ancistrus would devour it once it turned red, not sure if to get to the wood under it or for the BBA itself.

Giancarlo

quatermass

Consider me as a interested party as I use Excel.
I'm in the UK.

Seachem list UK suppliers on their web site.
Shipping liquid is expensive I'm told from the USA.

gpodio

Guys if there isn't much in the UK, I'd be looking in other places in Europe. I know several people in Italy buying it from "over the boarder" to save some money. Perhaps shipping will be cheaper than all the way from the US.... Just a thought, it's worth a shot.

quatermass

So time to hit those German and French Aquarium selling web sites?

I suggest emailing Seachem and asking them for their conditions.

Like I said, they may well ship it over as dry powder and the distr. adds distilled water over here?

Alternatively, has anyone looked at its equivalent chemical I mentioned earlier in this thread?

Succinic dialdehyde

this is suppose to be safer than glutaraldehyde and Seachem did say they used a less toxic version of glutaraldehyde didn't they?