wls

My apologies if I posted in a wrong forum. My relative's tank has a cloudy water. I was told that the biggest fish in the tank (20 G high) in the aquarium died (big Chinese algae eater) and then five more fish died within a few days. Then the fish were moved to another tank. The tank and gravel were washed and cleaned and than in 3-4 or four days fish were put in. I don't believe anything besides water were used to clean the tank and tank might not have cycled completely. Now the tank has cloudy water. I assume it's bacterial bloom. Any suggestions or recommendations would be much appreciated.

Thank you!

Seattle_Aquarist

Hi wls,

There are a lot of possibilities of what it could be, and a bacterial bloom that is occurring during the "nitrogen cycle" is certainly one of them. Most tanks when first started will go through the nitrogen cycle. More or less it goes: first ammonia; then nitrites; then nitrates; then nothing. The ammonia and nitrite part of the cycle can be fatal to the fish. I just "Googled" "Freshwater Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle" and there is plenty of information available. Water changes can temporarily reduce the toxicity. I know that there are additives that can reduce the toxicity and/or speed up the cycle but I have not used them. Maybe other members can share their experiences.

wls

When I started my tank I was patient and cycled it for about two weeks. I used a running filter with Black Diamond carbon, Biozyme (bacteria starter). I put the plants first, then ghost shrimp and fish about 2 weeks after setting up the tank. I use Amquel + when I do water changes.

Cliff Mayes

Stop!

Adding fish in any quantity quickly just dooms the fish. Cycling can take as long as 2 months.

As has been already stated you probably have a Bacterial bloom causing the water to be cloudy. The first time it happens in one of my tanks it drove me crazy. Patience is required.

Add fish slowly. Bacteria cultures only expand to fill space and the food available. Bacteria can reproduce quickly if there is room and food for them but hours are crucial to a critter that lives in that environment. The crude measures of checking for nitrates and nitrites are all we have to see if Bacteria are doing the job.

Once the Bacteria bloom that is probably clouding the tank run out of food they die off rather fast. The question becomes what happens to the carcasses. The answer here is Water Changes [WCs] and this raises the question of where are the Bacteria coming from and do WCs just introduce more bacteria. Chlorine which is added to most municipal water supplies does not kill everything, which may not be the actual cause, and eventually when the tank is up and running the Bacteria blooms are not a problem.

Smaller WCs [under 30% per week] are typical and usually do not cause problems. Bacteria do not typically stay in the water so initially WCs are not really required. We actually only test for certain chemicals sometimes because they indicate some other type of activity. There are, probably, many chemicals in tank water, which is why we do WCS. The food and fish wastes plus what comes in via the new water all can add things to our tanks.

Another thing that happens to new tanks, especially when there are dramatic temp. differences between the incoming water and the tank temps., is the small bubbles that coat everything in the tank. The small bubbles are probably nitrogen gas that very readily comes out of the colder water as the water temp. increases. The sudden release of nitrogen can give the fish the "bends" and lift the slime coat from the fish, both of which are bad for the fish.

Wow! Looking at this it seems like a lot but while it may seem daunting it will become second nature to successful Aquarists.

wls

It's not my tank and I was sick when that happened and wasn't able to help. The tank had mostly large Amazon swords and lots of fish. Everything seemed to balanced out but when one of the largest fish in the tank died, that started a chain reaction. Fishes are already in the tank and been there for some time. I went to check today and water is not as cloudy, as it used to be. So hopefully it will clear up pretty soon.
As far cycling it can take up to a few months. Do you think that Biozyme or other bacteria starters make tank more unstable?

Thank you for your feedback,




Leon.

Cliff Mayes

I have used bacteria starters many time based on superstition. This is not a recommendation. There is only one brand, if it is kept refrigerated, that most folk claim works.

Bacteria are strange in that they cannot be seen with the unaided eye. We usually only infer bacterial activity from the crude tests that we use to determine bacterial activity. There are many hypotheses and theories (with a great deal of confusion about which is what) that are around. Until some bright person with the financial support comes up with a method to figure out what the bacteria are doing we are faced with our lack of knowledge.

Until a better method comes along we will have to stumble along with the methods we now have. Bear in mind that what seems like truth today may very well be humorous in the future. New methods and technology may open up a whole new world to us.

Using soil, lots of plants and fish right away may be a better way but patience in a hobbyists best friend. Media or a filter from a fully cycled tank may be the fastest way to get a tank up and running but the slow addition of critters is the safest way as of now.

Diana K

Timeline:
1) Several fish died
2) Fish removed, tank cleaned, reassembled.
3) After several days fish returned to tank.
4) Tank clouded up for a few days, now clearing.

Question: Was tap water used to clean the tank, filter, etc.? This can kill the nitrifying bacteria.
Note: 3-4 days without ammonia can kill quite a few nitrifying bacteria.
Note: Cloudy water in itself is not usually dangerous to the fish. It can indicate any of several problems, some of which need attention.

Test daily for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, lets see where this tank is in the cycle. Live, thriving plants are also biological filters, and may have picked up where the bacteria are missing. If you see ammonia or nitrite then the bacteria population is not up to handling the waste load from the fish.

Tetra Safe Start and Dr. Tim's One and Only are the only two products that I know of with the correct species of nitrifying bacteria. All other 'bacteria in a bottle' contain the wrong species.

Cloudy water could be heterotrophic bacteria. These are not nitrifying bacteria, but beneficial. Nothing to worry about. Just keep up the water changes. As noted above, when the population of these bacteria crashes it can spike the ammonia.

Cloudy water can be caused by pH altering additives.

Cloudy water can be caused by dead fish. Good that you (your friend) removed all the dead fish as promptly as possible. Gutting the system and rebuilding it is a bit extreme, though. Sometimes needed, I guess.

Cloudy water can be the beginnings of green water algae. At first it does not really look green, more grey. If you use clean white poly fiber in the filter you might trap enough to see that it is green. In a few days it does turn green as the algae grows.

That the cloudy water seems to be clearing so promptly suggests to me that it was a bacteria bloom.

wls

Thank you for your feed back and support: Cliff Mayes, Diana K. Good news the water is clear now. Yes, I believe the tap water was used. I did provided old filter (Whisper 20i) that was used in another tank. I also moved most of hornwort plants from my tank to that one. So now it has couple of fast growing plants: hornwort and cabomba. No additives of any kind were used. The only thing that might have been added is aquarium salt.
As far as "Tetra Safe Start and Dr. Tim's One and Only," I never heard of this products - so thanks for letting me now. The only Tetra product I have now is EasyBalance and it's been a long while since I used it.
"Gutting the system and rebuilding it is a bit extreme, though" - I agree. I would've probably removed the dead fish, did a water change, added dry bacteria starter and may be added and additional filter with carbon.
If I may ask you somewhat unrelated question. Today I noticed in my tank something that remotely looks like cotton on top of hornwort and corkscrew vali. My vali shed some older leaves but the new ones are growing. It's looks more clear then white. Any ideas on what that might be?


Thank you all for your help,




Leon.

Diana K

Cottony looking stuff is usually fungus. Most fungus grows on dead organic matter such as a dead fish or dead leaves, or fallen food. I see it more often on protein based things like food or a dead fish, not so often on dead leaves.

Yes, when a fish dies I just do a water change and watch the tank (ammonia especially) for a few days. The worst problem I had was a rather large fish MIA. Died, and hid under some wood. That one I did have to move a lot more things to find the dead fish. Took an additional water change the next day to drop the ammonia again, and by the end of the day the bacteria had caught up.
Better not to disturb the natural microorganisms in a tank, though. When a fish dies they are right on top of decomposing it an getting rid of it. Nothing unhealthy about that, no reason to nuke the tank. It is just that the high ammonia can get toxic in a confined space, so water changes are called for.

Did you ever figure out why the first fish died?
Was it the ammonia from this one that killed the others?

Dry bacteria preparations are not the nitrifying bacteria that are found in the greatest numbers in a fully cycled tank. The proper bacteria do not enter a resting stage that can be dried. There are many other bacteria in aquatic settings, and they may be of some use, but not to boost the ammonia or nitrite removing capacity.

wls

Hello,

The interesting thing is that it grows on live organic matter - hornwort. Valisneria shed some larger leafs but still growing. I noticed that "fungus" in my tank, not the one where fish died.
I don't know why the fish died and I didn't see it, may be of natural causes? The fish was probably 3-4 years old. I was told that the second fish that died - albino algae eater had red streaks on its body. I was told it was moved to shallow container. The fish committed a suicide at one point, jumping out of the container. The fish was dead by the time it was found. I think that after the first fish died, the rest died because of high ammonia concentration.
This is the bacteria starter that I used on occasion:
http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/prod/209009/product.web