GillMan

I don't think anyone is taking the initial dosing per instructions into consideration but rather just starting the regular dosing multiplied by whatever factor of our choosing. I started 3x dosing (30 ml for 90g, rounded to 100g), for three weeks. Got the green dust-like algae under control but the green dot algae was using it as suntan lotion. So, now, on week four, I started 5x (50 ml) dosing and the green dot is starting to take a hit and no cloudy water. I got a 2L bottle online so I can go for weeks still. The plants are actually looking great as well.

 

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gpodio

I agree, I would not double the "Initial" dose stated on the bottle, just the regular dose. I've been triggering some algae blooms in one of my tanks to "play" with this method and I must admit even the single dose is quite effective on thread and hair algae. Don't have any BBA to try it on though. If you have a little patience I would probably start with the regular recommended dose and see if you need to increase it after that.

Someone I know mistakenly put 125ml of Excel in their 75 gallon tank with disasterous results. I'm not sure what the maximum dose would be before running into problems but as it seems, 1x-2x the recommended dose is working so I see no reason to risk higher concentrations unless these doses are not working for you. Some fish may be more sensitive than others too so only time will tell. The more people post their experience with Excel here the better!

Giancarlo Podio

Osteomata

I am too scared to double/triple the initial dose. I used the recommended initial and am simply doubling/tripling the follow on dosage.

But there do seem to be some people doubling the initial. Read back several pages and it is apparent someone did it.

Osteomata

Day 5 of my double dose Excel treatment (did NOT double the initial dose, only the follow on doses):

Fuzz/Hair Algae: Amost gone. The tops of some of my stem plants and the top portion of my moss branch looked like green cotton balls when I started, now I just have remnants left. The algae intertwined with the moss is proving most resistant, but it is very much reduced.

Green Spot: I cleaned most of the tank walls before I started, and no new spot algae has appeared on the walls.

BBA: Physically removed the few affected leaves at the beginning of the treatment, no new contaminated leaves that I can see yet...

Staghorn: It resisted hard for 4 days, but today I see reduction and red patches along the staghorn stems, its dieing.

I also started my new fert routine (EI) 3 days ago, so that may be helping as well.

Laith

Excel is an alternate source of carbon for the plants isn't it? Therefore would one get similar results by raising the CO2 concentration in the tanks?

Tom Barr recommends higher CO2 levels to combat BBA and I've tried it, it works.

Or is there another ingredient in the Excel that acts likes an algaecide? I don't have access to the Seachem line of products so I've never tried it.

gpodio

While it's true that proper CO2 levels will help sove algae problems, CO2 gas does not actually act as an algaecide, it just puts the plants in the right conditions to outcompete algae. It certainly is one of the key players in getting things right and avoiding algae problems to beggin with.

Excel on the other hand is a chemical product that supplies a source of organic carbon and also has algaecidal properties or side effects....

If I had to summarize the two, I'd say Excel is a great long term source of carbon for non-CO2 (gas) enriched tanks and also appears to do some good in CO2 enriched tanks as well. Excel can also be used short term in larger doses to eliminate algae caused by whatever reason, in both CO2 and non-CO2 enriched tanks, but I would not consider this to be a "solution" to an algae problem, just another way to kill the algae that's there. The long term solution is getting the fertilization right for your tank so that the algae doesn't develop in the first place. "Getting things right" covers all nutrient levels, however as Tom advocates, CO2 is indeed one of the more important elements and often the hardest to provide in good quantities. CO2 deficiency does indeed appear to favor the growth of BBA and in most cases raising the CO2 concentration solves this problem.

Obviously one could use Excel indefinetly in a CO2 enriched tank as an aid in controlling algae in general but there may be long term side effects that we are not aware of yet, caution is always important when dealing with such chemicals.

This is the post I made on page two of this thread regarding the content of Excel and what I feel may be the reason behind this algaecidal property:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...7&postcount=50

Hope that helps
Giancarlo Podio

Laith

Ok, must have missed that post re the ingredients and what you say Giancarlo makes perfect sense.

Like I said, I've never tried it so I can only go on the various experiments that have been reported on here. From what I'm hearing here and elsewhere it does seem to have an effect on algae.

However, I would just caution anyone thinking that this is the magic solution to all algae problems and you just need to pour this stuff in to get a great tank . As with any "algae killing" methodology, it needs to be backed up with finding the root cause and fixing it...

skids

FYI on this chemical. It is used by protein crystallographers and protein chemist to cross-link amino acids in a protein for structural studies. It is a mild crosslinker, but this is part of it's usefullness in embalming corpses.

As such it is technically poison for anything with amino acids, ie, algae, fish , your fingers, etc.

The question is dose. We did increasing concentrations of molarity, time and temperature to control it's reaction to cross link our protein of interest in test tubes. Your tank is a big test tube.

Avoid overdosing massive amounts. Hence the label warning. But these low doses are probably effecting algae first because they either uptake the glutaraldehyde faster than the fish (due to higher cell wall permeability perhaps?) or maybe the fishes livers can detox the low levels, but algae lack the necessary methyltransferases to start the detox breakdown pathway.

This is a very interesting thread. I use excel at normal dose in 3 tanks, one does great but other has Rotala indica which doesn't seem to respond to it, but I have never tried upping the dose. I use 1ml/10g each 2d (normal dose)

I am now very interested in putting 11-17ml in my 75 long (57 actual) with a current hair algae problem.

plantbrain

So was it a "lack of carbon" or the Excel cured the algae issue?
Like adding enough CO2 to prevent algae by allowing the plants not to be carbon limited..........

Regards,
Tom Barr

gpodio

Hi Tom,

In my tests it appeared it was the Excel which had a direct effect on the algae. I've since used it even in tanks with plenty CO2 to help get rid of unwanted algae, after having fixed the cause of course. I've also noticed that not all plants seem to react to Excel in the same way, some such as rotala wallichii didn't seem to react to it at all while Hemianthus callitrichoides in the same tank took off like a weed.

In a little "play" tank I tried having plenty of light, little nutrients and no CO2... a recipe for disaster... once the algae took off I dosed excel in varying doses, in the end using 3-4 times the regular dose the algae was on it's way out and the plants were in the same poor shape they were before, so I doubt they had any effect on the algae itself. Eventually I got to the stage where both plants and algae were dead

You're asking the right question though, it's not the cure for all algae problems, it can certainly solve problems caused by a carbon deficiency but at the same time it can also help eliminate algae that is there for other reasons. Obviously in that case it is not providing a solution to the problem itself, just helping clean out the tank in much the same way one can do so with H2O2 with apparently less effort and perhaps less risk.

Giancarlo Podio

 

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