Texex94

I had a question for all the users of Amazonia regarding ferts. After the initial burst of growth from the released ferts that leach from the substrate, what does everyone do in terms of fertilizing their tanks. Are people using ADA ferts and what about the macros that are needed? In the past, I've used a revised IE dosing using Seachem's products and had pretty good luck with it. I wanted to get a feel for what others are doing when combined with ADA's awesome substrates.

Gotta say, this is easily the best substrate that I've ever used and I'm in the process of converting all of my main tanks to the Amazonia substrate system. Expect some more orders soon Jeff.

Texex94

TNguyen

Hi Texex94,

ADA substrates is probably the best substrate IMO. As far as ferts go, if you have good result with your revised method. I'll say stick to it.

Cheers

Phil Edwards

Amano himself told me that tanks with his substrates don't need macronutrient supplimentation except for potassium "Brighty K!". After going a month supplimenting K, Mg, Fe, Ca, and traces only I can say with certainty that my plants do better with some nitrogen and phosphorus supplimentation as well. Take this with a grain of salt, my tanks are currently run with a VERY low or ZERO bioload. Your mileage will vary based upon the bioload of your system.

It's my experience though, that tanks with ADA substrates require N and P input to be at optimal health.



Regards,
Phil

SnyperP

It's hard to find information on how to fertilize using the ADA line. Someone posted this awhile back...i forget who, but it's probably the most clear cut explanation for it's usage. I hope it helps.

http://www.adaeuro.com/gestioneacquari_eng.asp

nfrank

I set up 3 new tanks with Amazonia over power sand special on Nov 17 and have been pondering this question for the past 2 months! Each tank (90g-120g) mostly has a different mix of plants (mostly Echinodorus sp. Crypts, Blyxa, Rotala, Pogostemon, Microsorum, moss) , each tank w. ample light and CO2. Some plants came directly out of one of my other tanks while others were obtained in the mail from commercial sources.

The new tank growth and appearance of individual plants definitely seem to vary. In particular, some of my own old plants have responded to the new conditions much nicer than in their quarters. However, a few species have initially struggled in the new tanks. I will focus on the Echinodorus for now.

I cant help but think that the highly acid conditions of the new substrate, perhaps in combination with my water chemistry including water column ferts, are responsible for the varied plant growth.

The struggling include a few Echnindorus -- "horemanii" red, horemanii green (aka jade sword) - both are color varieties of uruguayensis - and red flame(ozelot type cultivar); All previously growing submersed. Other species both hybrids(cultivars) and non from this genus -- "indian red", spotted dwarf radican, schleuteri 'leopard', tenellus, quadricostatus, angustifolius -- are all doing great, despite a sometimes new but very pleasing appearance. Experiences with crypts will wait for another post.

The horemanii were all relatively young plants that had sprouted from mature root stock a few months earlier.I have had those plants for ~15 years and have been maintained in a variety of containers. Their most recent quarters had little gravel so most nutrients came from the water column and growth was robust: new leaves were appearing every few days. When transferred, there were many leaves up to 12-16" tall. After a few days in the new tanks, the leaves seemed to become chlorotic -- loosing chlorophyll and were even more tranparent than their normal appearance. (this was specific to those particular varieties). Despite daily 50 percent water changes during the first week (to clear the water and counter acidity), I suspected calcium and other macro nutrient deficiency, so i dosed the water column with small amounts of Ca, Mg, N,P,K, to be sure they was sufficient. My tap water is soft and has good iron relatively low but sufficient N,P,K and Ca (0.9, 0.06, 2.8, 9.8 ppm) ... also has chloramine and so was treated with prime. I doubt that was a factor. At day 7, those plants stabilized but grew relatively slowly over the next 2 months. Water changes continued; the frequency gradually decreased. It is now weekly.

The horemanii and RF are now finally starting to show slightly faster growth. The leave size continues to get larger, but no where near their normal size. This may be good in the long. As we know, these plants can outgrow even 20-24 inch deep aquaria. Interrestingly, the red flame growth is correlated with the horemannii. I cant help but think the acid conditions of the substrate, possible resulting metal toxicity or limitations in nutrient uptake (species specific) were responsible.

Ideas are welcome.

Regarding fertilization, this question must be considered simultaneously with the chemistry of ones local tap water and the frequency of water changes. Fish load, feeding are also factors but may be secondary. At the Atlanta AGA meeting Amano also told me that fertilization is not needed during the first 1-2 months, but i cant see how this is a universal truth.

nfrank

Although i didnt get a response from my last post, i am posing a related question for the Amazonia users out there

Since this substrate is actually soil and not a baked clay like other commercial products, does it require the same supplemental dosing of Fe and traces? Many soils are very rich in iron and trace elements and tanks with various types of soil substrates dont require any supplemental Fe/traces.

I have started to cut back on TMG dosing and the plants seem to be doing fine. Most plants are rooted in the substrate, but i also have lots of moss and ferns. Like Phil said earlier in this thred, NPK additions are beneficial (expecially the K).

Have other AquaSoil users modified/reduced their Fe+trace additions?

BTW, i am starting to really enjoy the Amazonia. I will soon start a separate thred touting what i think are its advantages.
--Neil
PS. You will see a similar post in the fertilizer forum. As a relatively new partipant in APC, i have not figured out that best way to attract folks to participate in discussions. I generally look at "new posts." Do others generally look at specific forums?

Ajax

Neil,
I have just recently switched from Malaya to Amazonia. I had been using Malaya for a little over 3 years with some pretty good success, but decided to give Amazonia a try. What I can tell you so far is that Amazonia requires much less in the way of ferts, and plants grow much faster.

Malaya will suck the kH down a lot faster for a longer period of time as well. This property of all the Aqua Soil substrates is probably what is causing the plants to melt.

One thing I think some people don't realize is that Brighty K is designed to counteract this property of Aqua Soil. Brighty K contains potassium bicarbonate which will help raise the kH. I have found that daily addition of Brighty K, versus another form of potassium, helps stabilize the kH, and in my experience lessens the algae outbreaks.

As for your question about iron & trace supplimenting, I've only been using Amazonia for 2 months now, but it definitely seems to require less. I usually use my red plants as indicators, and they are definitely more colorful with less ferts. I'm adding ECA at 1 drop per gallon after water changes, & Step 1 at 1ml per 5 gal on MWF. Usually at this point with Malaya I'm adding ECA 3 times a week, Step 1 daily & nitrogen & phosphorus.

I'm with you, I'm really liking the Amazonia. Seems much more "carefree" compared to Malaya. Needless to say I probably won't ever switch back to Malaya....ha ha ha

John