jsenske

This will be a new discus planted tank display here in our gallery. I just completed the installation and have a few minor tweaks to make, and I'll post a full frontal shot. Until then, I thought this set-up journal might be of interest to some, as I get a lot of questions about discus planted tank formulas.

substrate:
Penac P
Penac W
Tourmaline BC
1- 18 liters Power Sand "Special" L
5- 9 liter Aqua Soil "Amazonia" normal type
1- 15kg BRIGHT SAND
1- 8kg BRIGHT SAND

Filtration:
Eheim 2260
10 liters BIO RIO
5 liters NA CARBON (will be removed when discus are added)
ADA Lily Pipe outflow (P-6 17mm)

Lighting:
Coralife fixture
3- 150 HQI ADA NA lamps 8,000K regular (4 hours per day)
4- 96 watt Coralife 10,000K power compact fluorescent (10 hours per day)

CO2:
via reactor

Plants:
Various Echinodorus species

First I establish the rock layout which will also form the barrier between the substrate and decorative sand. I find that in a large tank with a really deep substrate such as that used for heavily rooted plants such as Echinodorus, a more effective barrier is formed when the rocks are placed on the bottom glass.

The completed rock barrier.

Penac P is added to just the 2 planted sections. Yes-- I use Penac, no- I don't wear crystals or believe in unicorns. Nor do I want to engage the same old argument about Penac. I will answer questions though.

Penac W is added throughout-- even under the decorative sand.

Tourmaline BC is added in the planted sections.

Power Sand "Special" L -- 18 liter bag was spread eevenly between the 2 planted sections.

Aqua Soil "Amazonia" normal type is added. I used only five bages for this 225gallon tank-- one advantage of the 2 section style where less expensive sand is used over so much of the bottom. Normally a tank this size would use 9-10 9 liter bags of Aqua Soil.

ADA BRIGHT SAND is added. A 15kg and 8kg bag were used here, though I fell I will need to add 1 more 8kg bag to get a bit more depth so avalanching on Aqua Soil is less of a problem. So I really should have just used 2- 15kg bags from the start.

Ready to add the driftwood.

I wanted to keep it kind of spare as far as wood. I did not want to use up a lot of space with wood, but rather leave more room for the many Echinodorus species to really grow lush.

Ready to add water very slowly and begin adding plants. To keep the swords somewhat upright and know how the composition was going, I kept the water running while I added plants. Normally I totally dry-scape, but that's tough with big swords.



Still a little cloudy, should be clear by morning. I'll post a frontal shot then for a little better perspective of the layout.

mlfishman

looks real good so far...Jeff, did you learn about Penac from rubbing your crystal ball? heheh ......btw: do you guys sell wood like that I need a small branchy piece for a 29 gallon ...itd be kinda cool if it stuck out the top a little bit

jsenske

Thanks. Yeah-right about the Penac!
I may very well be offering some wood on a limited availability/basis shortly. We have a big shipment coming from ADA in March, + I just took delivery on a new style of very cool sinking wood that I have never had before. We have tons of it and may decide to sell some on-line. Of course APC will be the first to know if that happens.

david lim

Looks very promising as another sword intensive tank. Are y'all using the same hardscape materials as last time?

Gomer

sweet. Good to hear. Not like I need to say it, but please keep us updated on this tank I love watching tanks develop. ..and although I don't have room for them, I always had a fodness for Echinodorus.

jsenske

Cool- yes will do. I will try and do lots of updates of this tank at various stages. I have the discus picked out already and they are so awesome I cannot wait to get them in there.
I don't know all the proper names, but swords include:
Amazon, uraguayensis, "Ruffle", ozelot, "red rubin", and "red melon".

The hardscape materials are all new in this tank (not from the previous layout if that was your question, David).

detlef

Okay then, let me ask what you expect from using Penac P and W? I've already been reading through the thread on the same topic which was started by fishdude a while ago. But I really would like to know your own personal view on the subject. Do you have any own experience about how it might influence plant growth or what ever effect it might have? How much would you spread into a 20g?

Thanks and regards,
Detlef

plantbrain

As a far as I know, I'm one, if not the only one, of the few people seeing if there are differences between using the Powersand vs Amazonia alone and with/out the penac/Toumaline or other items such as the liquid ferts.

I think most just go the extra distance, since they are buying one items already and add the complete line, much like George Booth did way back when Dupla came out in the USA 1986-1989. Later we found out George was not using Dupla lights of air conditioners for his home and tank

I really like ADA amazonia, I don't like the powersand. P and the T stuff, well, if you believe it works, go for it. Will, it hurt? No, do you need it? No. Does it do anything? Not that I could tell. I've already seen Dupla behavior in aquarist and used Dupla and am seeing the same thing here. But unlike those days, there are fewer folks trying to see what is significant and what is mere chaff. That is what drove PMDD and much of the plant hobby here in the USA.

I like Jeff's approach to the white sand/Soil division, simple and just place the rocks well and go from there. You can vac up any ADA soil that gets loose in the white sand so the longer term maintenance is relatively simple/easy.

Discus like large swords though, they will sink and rest within the leaves, and you need a 225 gallon tank to grow them in! haha, trees.

I will suggest and use ADA soils in future tanks certainly. Compare the price of them vs the flourite and Onyx sand, they are about equal if not a tad better, not too mention less messy/no rinsing needed. I found it have never caused any cloudiness either in the dozen or so set ups I've done with it.

But man, you need big tanks for these swords.
The indian reds and some of the other swords maybe used for smaller tanks or you can use some Crypts in their place.

Large tanks also would look good with large grounds of taller Crypts in this same type of hardscape.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Raul-7

Great start Jeff! It would look really awesome if you could use species from the Echinodorus genus to form a background, midground and foreground.

Has anyone ever created a successfull aquascape completely out of Swords?

jsenske

detlef- regarding Penac: I do not expect to see any profound difference from using it. My belief is there is a chance it provides some holistic benefits that cannot necessarily be scientifically measured or quantified. It doesn'y bother me to use it either way. Amano uses it, so I personally don't have a problem using on those grounds-- I don't think he would use it if it did "nothing", but I could be wrong-- and he could be wrong too. It certainly does not (or at least so far has not) hurt or hindered any growth in my tanks, so I add it and don't worry about it too much. That's me-- that's what I do. That in no way implies that that's what anyone else should do.

I am showing a step-by-step in this post, and that is one of my steps. You can take it or leave it when it comes to your own tanks/layouts. I am not trying to sell or push the stuff either. In fact, I do not have plans to keep much inventory of it beyond what I'll need for my own use. It can be special ordered and sent by air freight and be delivered in a matter of days if any one does want it. Honestly, and obviously- there's not a tremendous amount of interest in it and while I have sold some, definitely not a lot-- and that's just fine.

I will say when I add Penac to the water column once per month-- that next morning the water has a heightened clarity that is very noticeable. Not sure what that's all about, but it sure looks nice. It lasts about a week or until the next water change.

One other somewhat related story that I have hesitated to share for some time:
My wife's grandfather lives in the Texas Hillcountry and has his whole life (he's 84). He was in construction for decades and built many houses that required wells. He is one of these people that can locate water underground using a simple "Y" shaped branch from certain kinds of trees. They call it "witching" water. I have seen him do it, and it's pretty remarkable. Some do not believe it's possible, but -- what can you say when the guy finds a well/water source in the middle of a barren field of dust and brush?
Anyway, for his own house which is deep in the country, he located a water source, dug a well, and sure enough- that's where they get their water for the house. But the water is/was so excessively hard, that pipes and especially areas like around the hot water heater would quickly become covered in mineral deposits-- very difficult to clean. They just "dealt" with it for quite some time.
One day a man he met/knew in town -- German guy- told him about a device he could simply attach to the pipes that would remedy his problem. Of course, being a good old Texas country boy, he didn't put too much stock in such a claim, but tried it anyway. That product was a PenacKat. Now, trust me, grandpa had no idea what it was or any of the "controversy" around the Plocher system or any of that. He just bought this thing from this crazy German guy figuring he had little to lose -- + the guy was so adamant about the extent to which it would work.
During hurricane Rita here, my family had to evacuate to grandpas hillcountry home. We had several days to hang out and talk and when he told me this story I knew right away what device he had. He still knew nothing about it other than where it was and that it worked. The water from their tap is very clean and crisp and I had no problem drinking it-- and I am one of these "bottled water only" people. I grew up in the country myself with well water my whole life which in Texas is pretty awful stuff.
He took me to the 3 places around the house where he had PenacKats attached to pipes. I was so surprised that this old man way out in the Texas Hillcountry had this device, had a credible and totally innocent story behind it, and I could see, smell and taste the water myself-- and it was pristine. He had since turned-on no less than like 20 other people in town with wells and a lifetime of mineral deposit and other problems to the PenacKat, and according to him, all were just amazed.
All I can say to the character of my wife's grandfather is he is an honest man-- from the "greatest generation" and all (WWII vet, etc.) Just a good hearted country living gentleman with no stake in telling me lies or making false claims about this "metal thing he attached to his pipes at the suggestion of a crazy German man".
For what it's worth...that's my only first-hand account that is about as unbiased as I could ever imagine. I didn't rush out and get a PenacKat or anything, but I sure thought it was interesting.