DonaldmBoyer

I dunno, Steve. I actually preferred it the other way, before the trim. It looked more....natural? Maybe I am a little bit biased. My tanks usually stay slightly overgrown. HA!

You can't please all the people all the time!

Steven_Chong

I think exactly what I've been saying-- that I'm trying to stay true to this:



I've been not posting a photo of the actual type of place, because all of mine are crappy like this-- from being taken by a point-and-shoot by a me that was much less skilled, and also still suffering from jet-lag.

-no distinctions of tree branches/trunks
-no breaks in the trees
-no iwagumi like rock face exposed

And don't try to argue with me that there are, because this aquascape is meant to be farther away than this photo is-- it's just the best photo I could find.

and believe it or not, this photo is crappy only by my own fault-- the sites of these places, were utterly breath taking. This scape is for the feelings I had then. If I have to be the only one who can feel them-- I'll be sad, but I guess that's just too bad . . .

I'm really trying to be open minded and listen to people and not act set-minded and stubborn-- but all I hear in most of the comments I'm getting just tells me-- make a scape like Amano's. Make a scape that's like everyone else's, and follows the norm of aquascaping.

Which I say-- no.


Edit: Donald, you're right. lol

DonaldmBoyer

I think that your scapes can stand on their own without you having to justify them. All of these suggestions about trimming moss on the branches you have in your tank so you can see the wood is simply people trying to add their own personal tastes into something you created.

Not that it is necessarily wrong for people to do so. But, they don't have the same mental image that you do.

Nice photos! Looks like a beautiful place!

Steven_Chong

Thanks Donald, and you're right-- they should be able to go where they want! You're right that it's perfectly fine for them to think of it their way and have their own preference!

I look at Justin Law's Walking Aoyama and think Hawaii coastline even though he means Asian Stream!

I'm just being a whiny baby-- and frustrated in my lack of skill in not being able to take people where I want to. Just ignore the ranting-- I'm just being selfish and whiny-- having a little tantrum.

Maybe I should write my next "Aquascaping Philosophy" article about appreciating other people's work-- trying to go where they want to take you. It's like when I eat at an Italian restaurant--

Sure I want to put parmasean cheese on my Bolognese, but I ought to taste it the way it comes to me first in order to appreciate the work of the chef. XD

I'm just hoping that I'm also living by my own words and appreciating others work in the way I described just now-- I have the sinking suspician that I don't.

edit: Though, there's nothing wrong with putting parmasean cheese on it after you try it. Though in this case it's more like the chef is eating it himself and he just made little sample dishes to hand out.

Steven_Chong

I think I finished weighing the pros and cons of the 2 versions so far also:

sans-trim: Looks Taller-- it looks bigger in that it looks like an enormous towering mountain. It's more "steep." Not very depth-dimensional though.

with-trim: Looks Deeper-- that place where I cut just looks so far away, I love it. But, everything just doesn't feel as big in terms of height.

bare areas/thinner moss: they become trees, instead of mountain covered by trees.

Which is bigger, a tree or a mountain? Hmm . . . well, bigger isn't always better though. For this scape's motif though, it is. [/end tantrum] I think

Haeun

It's how artists roll.

We look at others' art, we look at our own, we try to understand what we're doing, and then we try to understand what other artists are doing. It's a continual learning process. Seems like you're going through some learning times too, Steven.

I enjoy looking at this tank, and watching your thought process as you work on it.

DonaldmBoyer

I think that there are two sides that equally frustrate each other.

Steve, the artist, is trying to scape a place that made him feel some connection on an emotional level. He is being frustrated because the rest of us, artists and hobbyists in our own right, tend to look at the scape and rationalize how we would make it better. The two never will equate each other.

For example: the picture that Steve took of a certain scenic place that artistically inspired him. He is more familiar with that place because he has seen it first hand and knows the angles and depth and color alot better than we do. I look at it, and can appreciate the angles and depth and color, but I don't know what the place smells like, or feels like....I haven't heard noises of nature that I could associate that place with, etc. Steve has experienced those senses, and it brings out an inspiration of sorts, and he can feel this way because it has an emotional connection with him.

I see a nice picture of nature. Meh....!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, to varying degrees.

I hate ballet. It is way to "girly" for me to appreciate. I can appreciate the athleticism of the dancers, and the time they put in to practicing, but I'd rather watch a football game. My wife (and most people) love ballet because it is an artistic expression combined with the fluidity of movement. On the other hand, I love the shrimp in my tanks because I appreciate the delicate beauty of Nature. I am a biologist, so I really like watching certain behaviours of organisms and how they associate with their surroundings and other organisms. I know their internal makeup, how they reproduce, digest food, etc. My wife hate them because they remind her too much of spiders.

What can you do? Nothing. You cannot argue an emotion, or a piece of art that was inspired by an emotion. There is nothing the creator of said piece can do to rationalize his feelings to an audience, and the audience is not able to offer helpful criticism that may help the creator. You have to accept the piece as it is, and find your own inspiration and appreciation.

That's that.

ranmasatome

Actually i agree with Donald... until you showed the picture..i had a totally different idea on the kind of forested mountain you were trying to build...thats why i suggested trimming the moss a little more..

I have seen these kinds of forest before.. hell.. i live in a country surrouded by this kind of vegetation.. but i guess in my mind i was just thinking about soemthing else when i saw the early stages of your scape...its not that you weren't able to bring me to where you wanted me... its just that there are so many different kinds of environments in reality that i never thought of this one...sometimes my mind gets fixated on something and its just hard to re-think...
I think thats what makes good aquascapers actually..or any artist for that instance..because when we focus.. we can see all the little details we want in our workpiece, we find the things that will fit, try them.. work them for colour, work them for texture, work them for depth..all because we can see and are all trying to make what we see in our minds come into real form. Thats another reason why you cannot get EVERYONE to go to where you have been before.. but when someone that has, sees your work.. BOOM.. he not only loves it.. he falls in love with it. I find thats what it is in most of my art pieces... the people that love it.. really do.. the ones that dont'' well.. its the "meh"..kinda response.."just a forest" or "just a tree" or "just a fish" kinda feeling.

Its good to see what you are trying to build..and i can understand where you're coming from now and clearly see what trimming of the moss on the sticks mean to the general scape..keep working on it.. i'd say your already pretty close..

Steven_Chong

Diana-- Always learning You're a college student (looked at your profile)? Maybe we should facebook.

Donald-- I totally understand-- I also, cannot stand watching Ballet. I've seen the nut cracker every year for the past 12 years-- and honestly, the only part I really enjoy is whatever part my little sister is dancing. But seriously, you make good points, and in some ways, we cannot get what we want tall the time as artists.

Ranma-- I think this is the most typical type of scene in the Japanese countryside. I love them! The Japanese might take them for granted they're so common, but to me I thought they were incredibly beautiful types of scenes.

You're right that other people just have other agendas, other ideas, so you definitely can't get everyone to understand.


I think though, that for art and in everything else-- I'm very much a believer in the type of life philosphy I picked up while wrestling: Suck it up and work harder.

Yes it's true that I'm too tall and not stocky enough to reach the highest levels of wrestling, but in highschool, I sucked it up and worked harder.

In this case too-- it's true I can't get everyone to understand, but that shouldn't deter me from trying (suck it up and work harder), because I might get better and better, and communicate to the audience better and better.

DonaldmBoyer

Steve, you have a fruitless goal! HA!

I guess it would be like my friend, who is a die-hard atheist (this could get me into trouble....IT IS JUST AN EXAMPLE PEOPLE!), and me, who is a die-hard Catholic. We have been friends since early college; we hang out constantly, did a lot of drugs together (YIKES!), talked a lot of philosophy. Regardless, it remains that while he and I over time understand the points the other has concerning religious and non-religious views, after a ton of fighting about it. We agree to disagree.

I think that is what you have stumbled upon here. It shouldn't make you want to try any less, but you should really try just to please yourself. You are apparently, in the "upper echelon" in this art/hobby, so unless you are strictly asking for information that may help you (nobody knows everything), I would start becoming more self-satisfied with what you are able to do.

Don't discount people's opinions, but certainly don't discount your own either. Easier said then done, I understand, but art is an area where the creator's perfectionisms count, not the audiences.

Hey.....by the way, it's Thursday. Should you be somewhere drinking by now? HA!

To everyone else: I hope I didn't offend someone or rile you up too much. I'll go back to being humble now!