Robert Hudson

Steven,

Its interesting to see how this has developed, and I have reserved comment until it has developed. I gotta tell you, this aquascape just hasn't done anything for me from the begining to now...

I think you have had too many sticks too randomly placed. When they were bare it just made the whole aquascape too dis jointed and chaotic, and when they are covered up with moss and whatever, they serve no purpose and the end result is just a solid mass of plants with little definition or contrast. Even the depth of field is lost. I can see the resemblence to the photo you are trying to re create, but I wonder why would you want to? Is a tree lined hillside in that context a pleasing thing to the eye? Is it three dimensional, does it have good contrast, focal points, and have various levels of detail? To me it doesn't. I think you can reach your goal with this aquascape if you put it more into a traditional design modle. If you want to create a tree lined mountain, make a mountain on one side of the tank with an open valley or field around it, or something to that affect. Anything to give it more definition and detail

Steven_Chong

Thanks for the commentary Robert. I think you're missing the point though.

We use focal points, contrast etc. in order to help us create beauty, not the other way around. If something's beautiful without those things, than it's beautiful without those things.

The place I saw was beautiful, inspiring, rapturous. I understand that my horrible photography cannot share this with you (I even said that my horrible photography doesn't convey the place), but I was hoping people'd at least believe me on my account of it, considering my other truly beautiful photographs from Japan (when I didn't have to take them through a train window).

Well, Ranmastone does because he's seen the like place. It didn't have focal points or huge breaks or glaring contrasts-- but it is beautiful. This aquascape looks like it-- beautiful. Quite frankly, it overwhelms me.

And if you don't think so, I guess it's like others have said-- I can't make everyone happy.


Donald-- Thanks man, you're a big help.


To all:

I used to think towards everything, "well, it's worth a try." With Hau Coast too, I tried all sorts of varieties in response to feedback, because it "was worth a try." But, just like the photos with red plants of Hau Coast-- I know now I'm never going to use them.

Now that I think about it, if I did make this into a totally Amano-ish, traditional-ish scape (because I could, it would be pretty easy quite frankly), won everyone's approval (though I'd probably upset those who love originality), and heck, even if I top 10'd the ADA with it (impossible for the tank size btw), the result would be . . .

I'd hate myself for it.

So I guess in the end I got to say: If you want to see an Amano, go buy some Aquajournals. Come to my thread to see my work, because in the end, I guess all I can do is stay true to my vision.

DonaldmBoyer

Well, now you made it sound too pointless! LOL!

Nothing is impossible.....just highly improbable that you would be able to dictate the certain emotional and nostalgic response to your audience.

It was kinda like that with my drawings back in college. They were inspired by my grandmother's death by MS and bone cancer, and the consequential guilt I felt after she died. I felt a tempest of self-loathing, wrote a book, and started doing artwork from the book. That combined with becoming uber-familiar with HR Giger led to hours spent drawing frantically twisted and demented art up at the local Ram's Horn. I sold everything (except one) for good money. That's not to say that I was a pinnacle of perfection, just had a unique style. I was good at it, made some fair coin, and enjoyed the release it brought.

But I highly doubt that the people who would stop and stare at my "little doodles" really understood where I was mentally when I was drawing them. And there were also many that would either say, "You are very talented, but I would never buy that," or something to that effect. Now, I would probably give them an icy stare, but I always knew that I wasn't trying to please all the people that would pass by. I was trying to please myself.

Organic chemisry (HA!!) was similar. You could get 40% on a test, and that would be an "A." One person out of 75 students in that class understood what the professor was trying to convey. Everyone else may have done well on the curve, but still didn't know what the hell they were learning! To me, that would be an idication that the professor should have done a better job teaching, but I guess that he felt he was doing an adaquet job and never changed a thing! So, he felt emotionally comfortable with how he was teaching, and that's all that really mattered. He didn't care too much about his audience, and frankly, I don't blame him. He was way too damn smart for us troglobites!

Anyway, get your homework done buddy! Have fun at your kegger! And for the love of God, stay away from organic chemistry if you can!

DonaldmBoyer

'Atta boy! Be proud of yourself and YOUR work! BE the trend; NEVER follow the trend! Beautiful as they may be, some of the scapes get a tad "every day"-ish.

I'll be waiting to see what you come up with next.

Genin

I think your scape looks amazing. I liked it when it was a little more overgrown and bushy, but I am sure when it grows in a little more again and you do your final shots it will be amazing.

ranmasatome

haha.. see what i mean.. told you that you'd get the "meh" kinda response...its nobodys fault really.. just that if you haven't seen it.. it really is quite hard for someone to "get it". The subjectivity of art is something that i have come to love so much..and also sometimes loathe..haha.. All in all i think its beautiful.

There will always be something that is "mainstream" and accepted by most, if not all..what is beautiful, what is accepted, what should be done, what colors go together, what you should NOT use...believe me.. beauty CAN be conditioned...so at the end of the day, you can choose to create (still) good scapes that are "in-line with the current train of thought" and win prizes and acclaim... or create good scapes that "aren't sooooo in-line" and remain true and happy to YOUR own vision. Personally, i almost always chose the latter, many of my own scapes come from first hand experiences in certain settings of nature in which i work...then when i get home i jot down to do it up in my tanks...which probably explains why nobody enjoys my scapes as much as me...hahaha..and i think it should be that way..because it is at the end of the day your scape and something you would have to live with everyday. Unless you're in this for the money...then maybe bend your stupid artistic ethics and 1:1.68 that damn scape now!

Robert Hudson

Oh common, give me a break! Steven has given very harsh, open critiques of other people's aquascapes, so I am sure he can take it in return. I am not going to sugar coat it just so you can tell me that I get it. There is nothing to get! His aquascape is one dimensional and looks like a solid wall of plants!

Thats not true at all. You study Amano's work, you should know that. Its all in the composition. Whether its a photo or a painting, or any piece of art. You can take a photo of a beautiful thing and have it look shabby if you do not frame the picture correctly, or have the right composition. What you create in the aquarium is a snap shot, a photo of nature. In fact I think I have even heard you say that before! I am not trying to degrade you here, but I am not going to patronize you here either. If this was not your work, and you saw this, would you feel the same way?

BTW, I really liked your sketch. That would be a really interesting aquascape

ranmasatome

Robert, i'm sure steven can take it like Ronald has mentioned.. in fact, i can see where you're coming from and if i put myself in that view, i think your advise is wonderful. Personally, i think its great that you give honest advise...i like it.. i don't like sugarcoating either and i'm sure steven appreciates your honesty as well. That is also the beauty of aquascaping.. you dont have to get it..and i'm not going to tell you that you get it, and know you have no need for me to..i mean who the hell am i?? That wasn't my intention at all...
i'm sorry that i did use your post as an example but it wasn't meant to pint point anyone.. it was just to show that with any scape.. there are people that understand it and people that don't understand it... and its okay because like i said beauty can be viewed in many ways... some call it beautiful when its scaped in a certain fashion and appeals to the current style, and some call it beauty when it conveys a certain feeling for them, both in my opinion, are good things. This particular scape, i feel, conveys more emotion than the "correct scaping techniques" and all i'm saying is that, that is beautiful as well.

Anti-Pjerrot

I dont think it looks like a solid wall of plants - but I dont like it. In my opinion its way too messy. The mossy feel in the trees dont work for me - its too harsh. It need to soften up.

I dont like the use of glosso either - in combination with the "trees" its too bigleafed - also due to the somehow claustrophobic feel of the total layout.

I think the front right side is wrong - provides nothing and makes most of the claustrophic feel i get. Perhaps its what Robert feels too?

I think it could work if you maked an opening by rescaping the hole right front side. Try making a more light front area to provide some contrast to the dark branches.

I really like moss part in the midground over the rocks - its catchy and gives some movement - due to different directions of the mosspoints. Riccia is good too.

If i had to boil everything down to one thing - redo the right side and use some of the parts from the middle and left side.

(In the sketch - its done with an open right side too)

DonaldmBoyer

Maybe this site should be simply devoted to Amano and Knott, then?

I am sure Steve can take it as he dishes it out, but that wasn't the point. The point was that an artist can relay his nostalgic feelings through aquascaping, despite the effort that put into obtaining that. Art is subjective from the creator, and not supposed to be logical despite the opinions from the audience. You can't really design something using objective opinions from the audience, and still have the piece truly be your own....you can do it, but it will leave the artist feeling empty when he is done.....and the piece will look "flat," kind of emotionless.

You have to give Steven his due. People here are superb at contructive critcism or offering hints of how to improve a scape, which is totally cool....it is what makes this site tick. But at the end of the day, you have to allow people to be creative and use their personal touch as they see fit. And then, the scape is beyond criticism.

As much as I love Amano and Knott, "The Look" is starting to bore me know. Too many copycats out there because it is trendy. Not enough people willing to take a chance and come up with something new or fresh. You can't borrow someone else's idea, skillfully plant the scape, and call it "your own." It may be beautiful to look at, and it may have taken some skill and effort, but a true artist you ARE NOT!

Someone......be a little bit bolder and design something new, please! My God, you guys are going to tear me apart when I post my pics in about a month! YIKES!