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Aquascaping Discuss aquascaping designs and techniques as well as get critiques on your aquascaping pictures. Find out how to use aquatic plants, reefs, and wood to design a planted aquarium.

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Old 02-20-2007, 11:50 AM   #21 (permalink)
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All I have to add is that aquasketch is spelled incorrectly in your sig Steven. Otherwise, interesting reading from you as usual.

-Charlie
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Old 02-20-2007, 12:17 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Charlie,
As an English Primary school teacher can I just say how much I love your signature! Made me laugh!
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Old 02-20-2007, 08:46 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven_Chong View Post
guaiac_Boy-- I agree with everything you've said, but that's why this is "elementary level." You're talking about really beginner hobbyists. This is more directed at people who are starting to turn to actual aquascaping.
I actually don't agree with this. Maybe I am mostly talking about NewB's, but I think the newbie stage lasts a lot longer than most people would like to admit. Probably it includes 90% of people that come to this site. Many, many people start aquascaping before they're prepared to be succesful at it. It's frustrating. It takes a lot of time and experience to master the basics, figure out what you can grow, and show the plants to their full advantage. I think your article is full of good information that can be applied to any level, especially concerning mid-ground development.

I'm just suggesting that even an artist with great inspiration and great vision can't really create a masterpiece in this hobby without understanding the medium.

Squawkbert,

What grade are those cows?
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Old 02-20-2007, 10:25 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I personally don't fall in the category that "that doesn't like to admit" that 90% of the members who come here are Newbs to aquascaping. It's true. A bit disappointing, but true.

There's the hobby of growing aquatic plants, and there's the art form of aquascaping. You can "understand the pallet," that is have the experience of growing a lot of plants, but if you still haven't conquered collectoritis or made a real resolve to aquascape, you're still "really beginner" in my book.

That said, I think you're right that real beginner's, and not-so-beginner (who've made a resolve to aquascape) alike can learn something from reading this.

In short generalization with no real evidence to back it up, maybe the vision of the aquascaping world we're imagining is like this:

90% Newb-- (this category includes people who've been in the hobby for a week or 20 years, if they haven't made the resolve to aquascape and learned the basic skills, they're newb no matter how many tonina species they've grown before)
8% Elementary-- (Again, come from varying levels of plant growing skills, but have made the resolve to aquascape and have some understanding of the basic design ideas)
2% Intermediate-Amano

Edit: Granted, there probably is a fairly strong positive correlation between aquascaping skill and plant growing. But we probably all know a fair number of members where one is much stronger than the other (though guys with better design than plant-growing skills are pretty uncommon). Er . . . actually, off the top of my head, I can't think of ANY besides myself (I still classify myself as "Newb-Elementary" class when it comes to growing plants)

Last edited by Steven_Chong : 02-20-2007 at 10:40 PM.
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Old 02-21-2007, 09:42 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'm a newb
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Old 02-21-2007, 11:58 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven_Chong View Post
90% Newb-- (this category includes people who've been in the hobby for a week or 20 years, if they haven't made the resolve to aquascape and learned the basic skills, they're newb no matter how many tonina species they've grown before)
8% Elementary-- (Again, come from varying levels of plant growing skills, but have made the resolve to aquascape and have some understanding of the basic design ideas)
2% Intermediate-Amano

Edit: Granted, there probably is a fairly strong positive correlation between aquascaping skill and plant growing. But we probably all know a fair number of members where one is much stronger than the other (though guys with better design than plant-growing skills are pretty uncommon). Er . . . actually, off the top of my head, I can't think of ANY besides myself (I still classify myself as "Newb-Elementary" class when it comes to growing plants)
Hi

Nice overal thread - propably if my english was better i will speak more about things you speak about, Steven.

About part i quote...
I disagree with that because I know people which know lot about growning plants (know loooot about macros, traces, algae etc.), they plants are very high condition but overal they layouts are average. I know also people which layouts are very good but they don't have any special knowledge about plants - if you ask them how do this and do that they propably answer "i just us this fertilizer and i don't know lot about water parameters in my tank" . Speaking true i find only few planted tank junkies which are very good aquascapers and have big knowledge about "water chemistry and plant biology" .

Ah...one thing - newbes are scared use scissors . Plants love trimming...just like hair do.
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:29 PM   #27 (permalink)
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"i just us this fertilizer and i don't know lot about water parameters in my tank" that's me. Norbert's right on the dot...
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Old 02-21-2007, 01:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Really? I thought it was just me thinking, "I just sort of use that fert and it comes out like that . . . "

I've personally met a lot more of the "know loooot about macros, traces, algae etc.), they plants are very high condition but overal they layouts are average" types than those who have better design than plant knowledge.

Newbs are definitely scared of scizzors.
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Old 02-21-2007, 06:34 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Honestly, the best 'scapes probalby come from people who use mostly easy to moderately difficult plants which are grown under moderate lighting and CO2. Under those conditions, perfect knowledge of water conditions isn't that important and the margin of error for keeping the plants happy is fairly large.

Maybe it's a constant clash of the science-minded chemistry type geeks like me and the more creative, inspired types like many others. This is a funny hobby that requires a bit of both.
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Old 02-21-2007, 07:17 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I don't think the best scapes are made with "Plants I can use easily" in mind. The best scapes are made with "plants that best fit my inspiration." The highest level aquascaper, IMO, doesn't avoid a plant because it's difficult-- if it's the best plant for the job, that's the plant he uses.

If he doesn't use toninas-- it's not because the plant's difficult. It really is because that plant doesn't fit the design.

For me, when I am planning an aquascape, I know one of the greatest moments is when faced with a particularly difficult to accomplish motif, struggling with the thought for days and days, running through just about every plant in the hobby looking for an answer-- that moment when you wake up, or you see something, or just something clicks when you're not even thinking about it, and suddenly you come to the answer. The moment you think of the plant, the only one that could do what you want to do, and that answer glows in your mind so beautifully. It's like that pristine moment a mathmatician has after working on a problem for years and then the answer suddenly comes to him.

For my current scape, that's the way I felt. I was riding the shinkansen, pondering for hours-- how could I create those beautiful forests outside the window? I dozed off in the midst of thinking about it, and then that beautiful moment when I awoke, and the answer of using R. Najenshan with moss came to me. It was one of those pristine moments.

IMO, that's how the plant selection for the best aquascapes is made.

This is in regards to money as well. Hypothetically, if I had a layout in mind where I needed 50 eriocaulon cinerum, but I had no way of getting them and no time to grow out that many, I wouldn't do the scape. I'd do a different design, and save the Erio one for another day. I couldn't do a scape half-assed. It would always be bothering me that I knew the plant selection was "inferior to ideal." For me, ideally, an aquascaper wanting to build a great scape knowing there was no better way that I could have thought of. There is no plant selection that I thought of that would have been better. This is the best I could do.

He shouldn't be forced to a situation where he thinks things like,

"If only I had the skill to grow that plant the way I wanted."

or

"If only I had the money to afford those plants."

Those types of faults that aren't even connected to his own creative process should not be the cause of his failure. And when I say failure, I don't mean whether he receives praise or not from others. I mean whether he knows or doesn't know, that his is the best scape he could have made with his current abilities.

If it's about difficult v. easy plants, he should pick the best plant and if that's the difficult one, and he fails, that just means he has to get even stronger as an aquascaper-- in this case, strengthen his plant-growing skill.

Right now, I'm growing Nesea sp. Red in my 5gal, and it holds a critically important place in the design. Despite that the plant finder discribes it as "one of the most difficult plant in the entire hobby," and if it dies the whole layout will fail-- fear of that should not stop me from using it. If I know in my heart that it is the best plant for that place, that's the plant I'm going to use despite that something Rotala rotundifolia might do ok in its place. I don't care. I'm going all-out to try to achieve my ideal for this layout, and if I fail to reach that ideal it just means I have to learn from it and get better.

sorry for the rant, I was going to make a short reply but then ended up thinking of all sorts of stuff I wanted to say. Maybe it should just go into a new article . . .

Last edited by Steven_Chong : 02-21-2007 at 07:40 PM.
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