YzMxer99

Steven, great topic! My single CRS has become my "red and white striped cow" lol

As for the newb stage, I feel that there is another component to that "title". Let's face it this and TPT are two of the definitive sites to learn about growing plants. So yes many, many are here to learn how to grow their plants. You all remember that one plant that made you find your way to this site. For me it was a small anubias. I still have that anubias, but it is now a big anubias thanks to the great information present here. As a result, the one tank has grown into three and a love for the aquascaping art form has blossomed.

I feel that I, like many newb's here, are beginning to find there way with style and design. However, our "pallet" is limited to a few plants. Be it time, funds, or plant selection available, we are forced to work in a different way. Where the masters can design a scape from a design in their head or on paper, many of us newb’s design the scape around the plants available to us.

I am at that stage and proud of it. It is hard because there are many challenges to those at this stage. And one of the hardest is trying to take a photo of your scape that represents your creation. (That is why there is only 1 crappy pic of my current tank in its virgin state lol).

So “masters” keep articles, journals, and pictures like this coming. It only serves to expand the “newb” pallet. I feel as this topic is a bit of a challenge for the newb to become a newb scaper. As hoppy said, “Moving on from that educational phase takes some determination”

gf225

Brilliantly written, with some fascinating feedback too. Well done Steven.

Thanks for referring to my articles at the start.

nswhite

I enjoyed reading everyones opinions on aquascaping. But I think thats all it is opinions. I enjoy looking at Amano's aquascapes but I dont think thats the only right way to aquascape. Yes there are lots of good points he makes but there are also his opinion not the rules of aquascaping. I think people need to get off of Amano's nuts and start being more creative instead of trying to do what Amano does. Dont get me wrong he is very good at aquascaping but I dont agree with everthing he says. People follow his books like they are the rules of aquascaping or the bible when really they are just someones opinions. I feel that if you take a little bit from everybody than make your own the way you want it. Its art right, so can it be wrong I dont think so.

Also I belive that before you can make a beautiful aquascape you need to learn the basics about the plants and what it takes to grow them and once you've learned how to grow the plants then you can start thinking about aquascaping. I say this because people have great ideas about how they want things to look but know nothing about basic plants care.

houseofcards

Steven,

Very nice read, informative yet applicable and understandable by even beginner's IMO. I wish I had your insight and dedication to something when I was your age. I do agree with the long beginner's curve for many, but of course like most things there are exceptions. I think part of the long learning curve is that most beginners don't have a tank they use as an "Aquascaping Laboratory". A place where they could apply many of the things you have spoken about in this thread. Instead they have one tank or maybe two and they set them up for the long-term (relatively speaking). Having a tank that is taken down and setup over and over allows one to "practice". Like any skill, practive makes perfect. After being in the aquascaping hobby for about 18 months, I am just now getting to the point of setting up a "laboratory tank" to experiment with. I believe this will accelerate my skills.

Switching gears, it's not surprising that Amano was a photographer first and then a scaper. This is a virtual hobby for most and we don't actually see each other's tank in the flesh. What I mean is much of the success that Amano has received through his books and such would not have been possible without the photography level he or his group has achieved. I think when I first picked up one of his books, my eyes where drawn to the rippling surface as much as to the thicket of this stem plants. I don't mean this to be negative, but sometimes I don't know if APC is Aquatic Plant Central or Aquatic Photography Central. I have seen tanks that I think are very good, but the photography isn't up to task and vice versa. It would be very difficult to communicate the very prinicipals you have laid out here without the latter.

Steven_Chong

George-- They are the best example, and the best place I could point people.

House-- You're right on about the photography. On the other hand, I think in a way, that's just one more aspect of aquascaping, and something-- if you want to become great, suck it up and get good at that too. My attitude for a lot of things seems to be "suck it up and do it."

Setting up layouts to get experience is indeed important. You know, I've never had a laboratory tank, though that's an excellent idea.

Instead, 2 years ago when I started in highschool, I knew I didn't have the funds to get equipment/etc. I needed to make great long-term tanks, so I just gave up the idea of long-term scaping altogether-- figuring it was better to pick up skills for the day when I could afford the things I needed. So, I just kept setting 'em up and taking 'em down. I used aquascaping as the focus of my AP art project, and learned the art of "Use photoshop and design skills alone to make a 1 month old tank with crap light and DIY CO2, look as good as possible." I must have made about 30 layouts, none of which I finished or had up for more than a month (and many of which there are no photos of here). At the high point of desperately trying to finish my concentration for the AP test, I had 8 tanks set up at my house, 6 at school, and another 2 at a friend's house. All nanos that would never be completed of course, but all attempts to learn.

Many didn't look that good. Since I lacked experience and focus, instead of thoughtful attempts like my current tanks, I experimented just for the sake of experimenting-- did things for no real reason in mind. Just to do it and see what happened. But it was a good time to learn a lot of basic visual concepts that are different in aquascaping than painting. I also built up a lot of knowledge on plants and fish-- not to mention getting my collectoritis out ot the way. lol From those though, my hands and eyes got a lot better at the designing I think. For the low budget young student, doing things like that are not bad IMO.

standoyo

Great discussion, I like what you guys said Hoppy, Guaiacboy and Norbert. I agree with most of the points you state Steven but I wonder.

A blistering attack on the Tonina keeping scapers. Lol.
What have they done to deserve this? What must they do to please you? Lol! Why the attack on these guys Steven? What is your objective? I thought the insightful and detail explanation was good but let down by the putdowns.

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Yeah, if aquascaping is about competitions right, everything you said Steven is true. Tonina's [sp belem, uapes] are handicapped cos they look great from the top, not in profile, just like sunflowers. If guys/gals who love this plant so much were given a tip like to reposition the light so that plants would bend towards the front a little more would have been more helpful. So you don't like the plant, there's hundreds out there who do and not all of them are 'competition oriented'. I wonder what gave you the idea aquascaping=competition. lol. Erios can look great in a layout. The limit is the creator. If the creator limited himself to a large tank, then a small erio[2" diameter] would need to be planted so densely it looks like a carpet of green thorns. If the creator had a large erio[12"diameter], it would look good as the focus plant in a smaller tank[30G]. For the record, I don't keep Toninas or Erios anymore because they are high-light plants that don't fit my layouts. [yet]

I think for a beginner everything is new especially if it's plants. For the seasoned aquascaper, somehow there is the urge to use an exotic plant to fit the layout. There's more than just the downoi, erio and tonina. The fissidens, utricularias, HC's etc. I have 3 tanks. 2 for fun/competition and one for shrimp.[plant dump station] I also have a section in the garden for emersed culture. Talk about collectoritis.

Hey otherwise it'll be boring right? Do you seasoned scapers still get excited when you see riccia? I know it's a crowd pleaser but... lol.

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I don't have red and white cows, I have CRS and I don't think they look natural, they look like money!
Totally agree they look out of place in an aquascape that's meant to be in a competition, but I like them very much. Makes me happy to see them crawling out for food and they always look busy. They also breed like rabbits and I'm going to be rich.

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My thoughts on copying terrestrial landscapes-Mountains, streams etc.
The more contrived it is the more irksome it gets. Man, why not get some fibre/plastic moulding done and paint it realistically to the point that you've got that mountain down pat to the last detail. Why?
I can get made fibre hardscape so real you can't tell it's fake.[I work in the advertising industry]
Why not?

Cos it's fake.
My question is, are we heading that path?

I'm glad faux was not favoured in the IAPLC2006. Some of them looked like my kitschy art project window display, fake floss and all. Urks.

Aquascapes that have hills and and valleys are great as long as they're not trying to look like something they're not. There's such thing as too perfect and trying too hard.

I had this idea of using satay sticks and tying flame moss and stabbing it onto a couple of mounds of sand. In between would be a path of white river sand that flows from the right and left.
In time the whole scene will look like 'Salem' high country.
Add some CRS and it'll look like candy canes on X'mas trees.

Woke up immediately from that nightmare!

Norbert Sabat

just another 0.02$ from me .

I think that most of us chose plants for scape not because they are difficult or easy to grow but like Steven wrote they are best for the job. I have few friends which are the top aquascapers in Poland and most of them (almost all - including me ) don't use red plants. We have many red plants but some reason we like more all green scapes than colorful. For example - guys from CAU are high skilled aquascapers but i don't like most of they layouts because there is too much orange, red and pink . I just hate some plants and i never use them :P (f.e. : toninas, big echinodorus, cabomba, myriophylum, limnophila....).
Mr Amano isn't end of aquascaping but he is my Guru and his works are similar to my "art taste". I saw in web lot of creative works from all over world but most of them was (IMO) too creative ....I don't want to do innovation because i love what i do (even if this is only good aquascape craft ).
If someone want to be good aquascaper he must work and work. In my homeland i heard some opinion that i do layouts only for photos and i can't "hold tank" for long time. Sad to heard that but what i can say? I can't look at same layout for long and i must (my soul told me ) do something new. In last 3.5 months i made 2layouts in same tank from "zero" do "end" and i started thinking about third (but i don't have wood ). If someone care about same layout for many months (8-12 or more) he can learn lot about growning plants and average about trimming technic but not about aquascaping. IMHO practice make you better aquascaper - don't be afraid to use scissors once a week and don't be afraid change everything once in 3-4months .

Steven_Chong

Standoyo-- They've "never done anything to me," and this article is written without regard to grudges/preferences/feelings (mine or those of others).

In short, this is the aquascaping forum, it's assumed the goal here is achieving excellence. Having fun is secondary, as are "likes and dislikes." Your writing sounds like that of a hobbyist, and that type of argument is out of place in this sub-forum. I pick the plant for the scape, not because I like the plant. That's going all-out for excellence. That's essentially, tossing out collectoritis.

You are right that Aquascaping is not all about competition, and I never claimed it was. However, if competition was not at least an approximation of artistic excellence, we wouldn't care about competitions. It's not the true scale of excellence, but it's referenced here because it's the closest we have to a scale. It's viable enough to be worth referencing IMO.

My intention is not to attacking. I could not care less if my article "makes someone's feelings feel better or worse." I'm just pointing out a facet of aquascaping that needs to be pointed out-- T&E are not easy plants to scape with, and if used, should be used with well thought ideas. In fact, all plant selections should be well thought out, but difficult scaping plants like T&E require a bit extra. I'm sure you read carefully, so I'm sure you noted that I did not say that making a great scape with them is impossible-- merely that it has not been done YET.

If T&E keepers don't like what I said, all they have to do is aquascape better. There are no feelings, no grudges or anything like that involved here-- only the pursuit of higher and higher excellence.

If there's any feeling that motivates my writing, it's my love for aquascaping. I want to see it grow. I want to see more and more beautiful and well-planned aquascapes appear.

This is selfish but-- I want more rivals. I want more people to emerge who can push me, work with me, help me improve my own skills. If by writing somehting like this I can push some others in the right direction, and speed up the emergance of skilled scapers, than I'm getting what I want.


Norbort-- Well said.

standoyo

Steven, I think if you weren't so careless with words then you wouldn't need to retract what you say every one-three months down the line when you've been proven wrong. Being bold is one thing but being brash is hurtful and unnecessary.

Funny I thought bashing something you hate was not condoned.

Like what Norbert says, he hates Tonina... That's good enough.

Aquascaping is a hobby-something we do in our spare time. People who aquascape are hobbyists. Now if the title of your thread is 'Aquascaping Excellence for winning competitions'.

Steven_Chong

Stan, why do I end up feeling like I cannot make myself understood to you?

I'm saying I do believe a great layout with Toninas is possible-- just has not been done yet.

I'm saying competition isn't everything. But in art, reaching greater excellence is what we strive for, and competitions are just a means for approximating excellence.

You know that this sub-forum is dedicated to the art, and if you want to talk about the hobby-- there's all the other subforums. What I've said is appropriate in the context of this subforum.

I'm making reasonable arguments and supporting them. And as I said, I am making them without emotion-- that is, without any desire to "bash."

Heck, I never even said that I dislike Toninas. I said "they are very beautiful." I've just been saying they're not easy to use in design.