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Pruning timeline...

120K views 59 replies 34 participants last post by  salman 
#1 · (Edited)
Let me preface this thread by first saying, these pictures were not intended for this purpose, I just happened to take some pictures frequently enough to put this together. There are a few pictures 'missing' in the sequence. Use your imagination to fill in the blanks!

This picture was taken about 6 weeks after initial planting. The marselia has grown in very quickly, stem plants are growing in strong, but algae is rampant! I believe that atleast one pruning has already been done at the point this picture was taken. The bottoms were left in and the tops replanted to fill in empty spaces.


A few weeks later, algae is on its way out and the plants are growing in really well.


Heavy duty pruning is done. This pruning is done so that only 3-4 nodes are left above the substrate level. This is to encourage side shoots from each planted stem. A few tops were replanted, but most were discarded. Picture is missing. Imagine a BARE tank. With good ferts, plants bounce back quick.

A few weeks later...the plants are growing back with multiple shoots from each planted stem. However, they're all over the place when it comes to growth rates and sizes. Another pruning is in order - this time to give the plant groupings some shape and definition.


Several weeks later, taking into account growth rates of different plants, a severe pruning is done. This will be the final pruning before the 'money' shot. Growth resulting from this pruning will be lush, thick and the shapes will be well defined. Sean Murphy happened to drop by the day after this was done and I quote "What the #$#!! did you do in there!!!" I assured him I knew what I was doing here. Take note of the different heights and angles at which the plants were cut back. Tops were given away and not replanted - we want even growth rates (within each plant group) here - very important.


A few weeks later, the plants have grown back in. Things are looking NEAR optimal, though still not 100% perfect, however, this demonstrates some basic pruning techniques and the results thereof. Hope you get some insight from these pictures...
 
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#2 ·
Those are very helpful, thanks Ghazanfar!

In my tanks, one problem with this technique is that by the time my stems approach the tank top, the bottom portions look rather ratty, leafwise. I don't really see the bottoms of yours looking too badly here. Is this something you deal with, or is your lighting intense enough you don't have this problem?
 
#5 ·
Those are very helpful, thanks Ghazanfar!

In my tanks, one problem with this technique is that by the time my stems approach the tank top, the bottom portions look rather ratty, leafwise. I don't really see the bottoms of yours looking too badly here. Is this something you deal with, or is your lighting intense enough you don't have this problem?
The stems come back really thick - ratty bottoms I assure you are there - but you don't see them.
Each pruning is done at a slightly greater height than the previous one - that way you're pruning the side shoots, not the exact stem you planted. After 3-4 of those types of prunings, you'll get a nice thick bunch. Eventually,
you'll need to really hack it back to 'start over'. Some stems bounce back from this easily (rotalas) - others, not so much (stellatas).
 
#4 ·
from the looks of it, he pruned OFF the bottoms. (almost) I'm assuming this encourages enough outward growth, and side-shoots and any previous leaf damage (from lower light under the tops, or algae spotting) would be completely hidden by the new growth. not to mention when he topped the plants the first few times, I'd assume he had the option of using those stems to hide some of the problem areas if indeed there were any.

or maybe he's a much better aquarist than I am and never sees algae (although his first posts reveal he is indeed human)

Nice "writeup" by the way, although I know that's not what the pics were meant to be. Still nice to see the trim technique even in a vague sense, and then see the results on a timeline like that.

Thanks :)
 
#7 ·
This is great Ghaz! Thanks for posting it. I have made it a sticky it as I think this will help a lot of folks to actually see how to trim. I know after your talk at the meeting I have been doing this and am able to get a much larger grouping of plants.

As you said some things bounce back, some dont. The plants have to be very healthy to come back from such a massive prune as well.
 
#8 ·
This is great Ghaz! Thanks for posting it. I have made it a sticky it as I think this will help a lot of folks to actually see how to trim. I know after your talk at the meeting I have been doing this and am able to get a much larger grouping of plants.

As you said some things bounce back, some dont. The plants have to be very healthy to come back from such a massive prune as well.
I was just about to say! This should be a Sticky:)

Well done for the community.

Regards, Orlando
 
#10 ·
Great thread!!!

Thanks Ghazanfar.

It's shocking that algae would dare make an appearance in one of your setups.

I was astonished the first time I saw the guys at AquaForest in San Fran mutilate their giant display tank. They were mercilessly mowing it down to within an inch or two of the substrate.

I then went home and tried the same thing with excellent results.

Freeman said it best: "Plants love scissors!"

With taller aquariums it's important to not let the growth get too high before cutting it way back. If you do the lower portions will be too far gone to regenerate nice growth.

Thanks for sharing!
 
#11 ·
With taller aquariums it's important to not let the growth get too high before cutting it way back. If you do the lower portions will be too far gone to regenerate nice growth.
An excellent point. This is part of the reason for sloping the substrate so much higher in the back of the tank.
 
#13 ·
Great thread!!

Will the trimming technique and timing be the same if one is interested in preserving a good looking scape long term (as opposed to maximizing the appearance for the perfect shot)?
No, the technique is the same for long-term scapes. I've topped the same group of Rotalas 15+ times before replanting them.
 
#14 ·
Great post! This was VERY helpful to me as I am just now considering whether a good 'hacking' of my stems would help or hurt me. My stems are at a point where they need to be shaped, but I have let them get lanky at teh bottoms and bushy at the tops. Now I see that I should not be afraid to hack it off!

Off to get my scissors... :axe:

-Dave
 
#15 ·
This would be a good site to list those stem plants and tanks conditiosn that might not be appropriate for "hacking" to get the stems to be bushy and still look nice. For example: Rotala macrandra. I typically hack off the tops many times but have noticed that eventually the bottoms develop a large mass of roots and have to be replaced with the tops. In the past, i have mostly had low amounts of nutrients in the water column and did not have rich substrates.

So, ...
(1) what are the stem plants that dont like hacking?
(2) are there certain tank conditions that are more appropriate for the hacking approach?
(3) can we prevent the lower stems from developing too many roots?

If there is interest, this should move to a separate thred. If so, add a link from this popular sticky.
--Neil
 
#18 ·
There's not real way to avoid adventitious roots. Some plants will have them and others won't. A well planned aquascape always hides the lower portions of stem plants in the backround.

Rotalas are by far the easiest to hack back and let them regrow. It can also be done with Hygrophilas, Limnophilas, Ludwigias and several others.

Tonina fluviatilis is one that will not respond well to being hacked down.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Very informative thread Ghazanfar.

Couple quick questions for the forum. (I'm running into a couple of problems with excessive root development and requiring to trim on a weekly basis. I'm planning to do a little re-scaping. I've decrease the light interval)

1. When you plant the stems, do you plant them individually or in small groups of 2-3s to ensure the bushiness appearance?

2. How frequent do you decide to uproot the plants and replant with new cuttings to keep everything fresh?

Thanks.
 
#30 ·
V
1. When you plant the stems, do you plant them individually or in small groups of 2-3s to ensure the bushiness appearance?

2. How frequent do you decide to uproot the plants and replant with new cuttings to keep everything fresh?
Thicker stems like P. stellata / Ammania gracilis etc are planted individually. Thinner stems like Rotala sp. Can be planted in 2-3 stems per group.

How frequent to uproot - it varies on a per plant basis. Some are champs and bounce back everytime. Others get slower and slower bouncing back - eventually you need to uproot and replant (time for a new scape!)
 
#23 ·
Thank you SO much for that sequential set of photos. This changes everything for me, until now I have not been able to figure out how you all get your tanks so full of bushy stem plants. I think I need to start working on different elevations of substrate as well. It's chop time!:D
 
#33 ·
Aside from the fact that the left over biomass will rot, there is the more practical problem of have a ball of roots under the gravel which will make replanting in that location difficult.

I always shut down the filter, pull out the stem and as much of the root ball as I can get. I shake out the gravel and replant. The mess in the water column settles and I vacuum out as much as I can get.

Plants like my Echinodorous kleiner bar can get so root bound that pulling it out of the substrate disturbs a huge area around the plant. The roots are entwined with the plants that grow around it. Everything gets pulled out and replanted as a result. A huge mess is created. But that's the way it is.
 
#32 ·
The El Natural people do this all the time. They use it as a source of nutrition for the plants. I always worry because that will rot under there and bacteria will grow. You'll have a huge pocket for ammonia and sulfur gasses to form. I guess if you don't ever disturb that place until it is taken up by other plants you are fine. I know when I have had a bulb rot I have seen a bubble of the sulfur gas released from time to time. Wonder what others have to say?....
 
#34 ·
The El Natural people do this all the time. They use it as a source of nutrition for the plants. I always worry because that will rot under there and bacteria will grow. ?....
Yes, bacteria will grow and it will be anaerobic ....and while it will eventually provide a source of nutrients, it is not the ideal environment for new plants as old stuff decomposes. Plants with large white roots, like Echinodorus can tolerate that environment because their sturdy roots will pump O2 creating a more favorable environment. However, it will likley be a larger struggle for many stem plants..., so getting the stuff out is best.

Regarding a large mass of root , you can try to lift out a small section at a time. I dont yank the entire plant all at once. This will usually create a mess. Instead, I get my fingers down in the substrate and try to pull up individual roots. This should leave behind the attached substrate particles and not make as much mess. Cavaet: I have done this with sand and fluorite and not with softer materials like ADA Aquasoil.
 
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