naturefighter

Hi Kai,

where are you from? Germany?
Nice plants!

newellcr

Kai,

Nice plants! Thanks for sharing the article.

Cheers,

Chris

Kai Witte

Hello Chris,

Thanks for the kudos!

I assume you mean Niels' article? That's of course hosted at Jan's great site!

HeyPK

Do we really know if the acidity is important in the leaf mold, or is it the amount of organic matter and its effect on redox potentials and, therefore, availability of iron and manganese? Has anybody done an experiment? I propose that someone who has some of the blackwater crypts try one plant in the leaf mold and the other in leaf mold with added ground limestone or ground up eggshells added. The limestone or egg shells would keep the pH much higher. It would be interesting to see if this actually harms the growth.

Anybody interested in doing this experiment?

EDGE

Is there any other way to increase pH without using carbonate source? a lot of the acidic and soft water loving plants can't tolerate kH in the water.

Kai Witte

I assume we're talking emersed culture here to take this carbon uptake problem out of the equation.

Kai Witte

Hey Paul,

Yes and no...
I've done quite a bit of testing but am not ready to publish details yet.

Contrary to common assumption, the highly specialized crypts from the raised peat swamp forests don't experience high levels of available micronutrients - their only supply is mere rain water!

We know from earlier attempts to grow blackwater crypts that many/most can tolerate higher pH than they ever experience in nature (e.g. about pH 6). However, even if starting out with lush growth, many crypts posed problems in longterm culture and many stocks vanished within 2-3 years despite generous repotting and other measures.

I believe that with these plants we need to view their soil as an ecosystem where tampering with a single factor may have unexpected deleterious effects rather than it being a substrate which just delivers all necessary nutrients...

Xema

Hello,

Paul, I think ph is quite important... many japanese hobbiest growing their plant within ADA and akadama soil, not really acid stuff both, around 5-6. But they are rather succefull growing many swamp sp. beacause they keep the around pots water with a low pH.
I think the experiment that you propose would be more accurate if the plant would be grown on rockwool and usig a acid water adding acid or another stuff.

newellcr

Hello Paul,

Yes, I follow you. Success in Beech tree litter (or another specific 'soil' type) can be looked at in several different ways. We need to be wary of jumping to scientific conclusions based on anecdotal successes. When the science is missing, we fill in 'facts' as best we can.

Then again, what fun would it be without spirited debate...

Cheers,

Chris

newellcr

"Then again, what fun would it be without spirited debate..."

Heh, heh, heh, ...

Hello Kai,

"Well, Niels is pretty up-front that it's not the beech origin which is important. It's just an attempt to get as close to the original habitat as possible with local resources (in your area it may be oak or some other tree leaf mould...). And it works! Once you have thriving plants, you can always plant up runners in different soil mixes and experiment at leisure... Just keep us posted about your findings, please. "

Yes, finding what works for your own set up is very important. As is having access to plants. I haven't heard too much about folks in North America using collected leaf litter for their crypts. In the near future, I plan to give it a try.

Anybody have any stories they would like to share?

Kind Regards,

Chris