Peat swamp habitat for crypts (in Germany) - Cryptocorynes

Kai Witte · 02-25-2006, 05:37 PM

Well, I promised to show pics of how I keep my Cryptocoryne (http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...2893#post92893). So here we go!

BTW, I'll owe those of you who correctly identify 50% of the plants a beer when we get together (at an ECS meeting or elsewhere).

People who know my stock don't qualify though...

Kai Witte · 02-25-2006, 05:43 PM

This is a small set-up to house many different blackwater species so it's already getting crowded although most were quite small back-up plantlets/cuttings 4 months ago. Space permitting, it's easy to scale-up this setting so that you can allow more than 1 mother plant within each container. (You can see where I didn't followed my own rule of thumb and need to thin out already.

)

All crypts are in pots with acid leaf mould (i. e. highy decomposed leaf litter - cp. Niels' ground-breaking article: http://132.229.93.11/Cryptocoryne/Bo...Fagus_soil.doc) only and pure rain water added to taste. I guess this looks rather messy compared to some of the "clean" set-ups shown by others but, hey, it works!

I have kept the water just above ground level to allow a few cuttings without established growing points to catch up with the rest (next time rhizomes with really tiny leaves will go into a dedicated nursery tank though).

The mere stats: Tank with 60 cm (24") width, 30 cm (12") length, and 35 cm (14") height. Winter temperature about 23°C (73 °F), no additional heating. Light (12 h/d) supplied by a single 18W tube (Phillips TLD 840, electronic ballast).

EDGE · 02-25-2006, 08:14 PM

Such a nice and clean looking setup for all those difficult crypts. Your ability and knowledge to grow all those difficult crypts put us to shame.

I cannot find a source that explains the condition each crypts grow in. Do you have any sites you would recommend for this sort of information beside the informative article by Niel? Did you do a lot of experimenting long ago to come to understanding of what each crypts require?

Have you ever tried increasing the amount of light over the setup?

plantbrain · 02-26-2006, 12:34 AM

You or at least Niels should identify the species of leaf mould, it's likely a basidomycetes....
I also know a substantial amount about wetland soil and fungi.
At lower pH's and decent O2 levels, the fungi will predominate, but many have assumed there is no or little fungal influences, in very low pH confier leaf littler, the fungi will no longer grow though, the only way for that to decompose: fire.

I've found numerous species of fungi on many different plants.
Once the roots establish, the fungi should also and then you'll have good growth, as long as the fungi are working and having some benefit for the plant.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Freemann · 02-26-2006, 01:10 AM

Quote:

I cannot find a source that explains the condition each crypts grow in. Do you have any sites you would recommend for this sort of information beside the informative article by Niel? Did you do a lot of experimenting long ago to come to understanding of what each crypts require?

I would like also a list of crypts and their favorite conditions.
Which ones at least are the so called black water species??
Maybe we should start a different topic concerning this, people could at least put in it the species they already grow in different soils.

EDGE · 02-26-2006, 01:37 PM

Tom,

I was tempted to try adding hydroponic products containing microbes and fungi to the emersed setup water. I wanted to see if the additional microbes and fungi will increase the root growth and assist in the consumption of nutrients for the overall plant growth. The person (another hobbyist) I talked to said it is not necessary and the products are not worth the money because plants will produce the organisms/microbes and fungi at the roots by themselve.

Was he correct that adding extra microbes and fungi via a commerical product to the water is not necessary in an inorganic environment using hydroton or gravel)?

Kai Witte · 02-26-2006, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDGE

Such a nice and clean looking setup for all those difficult crypts. Your ability and knowledge to grow all those difficult crypts put us to shame.

Nah, I have to forward the kudos to the active members of the ECS who make this possible by sharing all those beauties! And, mind you, there are much more experienced crypt growers out there...

Quote:

I cannot find a source that explains the condition each crypts grow in.

That's a book still to be published...

There's quite a bit of information dispersed throughout (mainly European and more lately Japanese) aquarium journals/publications including accounts by many travellers. It also pays to check the botanical literature for locality data and I'd recommend to read Whitmore's book (1998. An introduction to tropical rain forests. 2nd ed. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0198501471) for a good introduction into SE Asian rainforest types (which happen to host most Cryptocoryne species).

Quote:

Do you have any sites you would recommend for this sort of information beside the informative article by Niels?

Your best bet would be that goodies like this will be eventually included into Jan's Crypts Pages.

Quote:

Did you do a lot of experimenting long ago to come to understanding of what each crypts require?

Well, all of us longtime crypt nuts did a lot of experimenting but truth is that much of that has been superseded by Niels' method: Make a slurry from acid leaf mould and DI water, throw in any blackwater crypt, and - presto - you have a growing crypt. It's that easy! Currently the real challenges of successfully growing crypts are to be found with other species than blackwater crypts IMHO.

Quote:

Have you ever tried increasing the amount of light over the setup?

No, must be some Scottish genes in me.

Seriously though, that's more light than most blackwater crypts ever experience! You can certainly double/multiply that light intensity and will get faster growing plants if not any other growth factor becomes limiting (so you may need to add nutrients). From my experience there seems little need to set olympic growing records and IME the less you tweak things the more stable culture is in the long run.

Kai Witte · 02-26-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plantbrain

You or at least Niels should identify the species of leaf mould, it's likely a basidomycetes....

Hi Tom, this seems to be a misunderstanding - I meant leaf mould as in soil/substrate rather than mildew/fungus. Sorry for being ambiguous!

Quote:

At lower pH's and decent O2 levels, the fungi will predominate, but many have assumed there is no or little fungal influences, in very low pH confier leaf littler, the fungi will no longer grow though, the only way for that to decompose: fire.

Well, vast peat swamps went ablaze during those recurrent fire catastrophes in SE Asia - after logging and partially draining them!

I suspect that drought may also play a role in slowing down decomposition of conifer litter akin to the humus accumulation in black steppe soils. While bacteria have a pretty hard time in highly acid environments, there are still actively decomposing fungi at a pH around 3 in those peat swamps.

Quote:

I've found numerous species of fungi on many different plants.
Once the roots establish, the fungi should also and then you'll have good growth, as long as the fungi are working and having some benefit for the plant.

I did try to look into this. I suspect though that with crypts we're not speaking of some mycorhiza-like symbiosis but rather that a living soil (a fairly complex "ecosystem" for those who never did give it thought) seems to be better at providing all factors necessary for healthy growth.

Xema · 02-27-2006, 05:46 AM

Wow!! very nice and healthy stuff!!!

I am growing C. longicauda with the Jacobsen´s method, and I am getting better result than poted plant method.
I am quite familiar with N. Jacobsen article, I traslated into spanish some weeks ago... I love his theory about the dead leaves acummulation what dissolves tanins, and other substances in the water, so plants generally found growing on sand are needing leaf litter too.

Greets from Spain

Kai Witte · 02-27-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDGE

I was tempted to try adding hydroponic products containing microbes and fungi to the emersed setup water. I wanted to see if the additional microbes and fungi will increase the root growth and assist in the consumption of nutrients for the overall plant growth. The person (another hobbyist) I talked to said it is not necessary and the products are not worth the money because plants will produce the organisms/microbes and fungi at the roots by themselve.

I'd give it a try if the company producing the stuff is qualified. There are some good products available today but often you need to establish yourself wether there's any benefit for your special growing situation (and if yes, wether the price is worth it).

Quote:

Was he correct that adding extra microbes and fungi via a commerical product to the water is not necessary in an inorganic environment using hydroton or gravel)?

Seems more like a environment which could benefit from adding a little organic matter and suitable microorganisms. Of course, you could also try a DIY approach with regularly adding water from a well-running blackwater set-up as shown above.