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Few questions: Rocks, Thick layer, DSM,NYC water...

13K views 116 replies 9 participants last post by  dwalstad 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi everyone!

I am Francesco and I am going to start a pico cube planted tank(PICO SET Aquarium Kit with LED Lighting 1.3W-6.500k and Power Filter, 1,3 Gallon).
I have read Diana Walstad's book and I find it very interesting.
I still have a few questions tho: :confused:

1. I see that having rocks in this kind of tank is not a good idea, but I would really like to have a few. Do you think that putting 2 rocks directly on the bottom, before putting the organic mix soil and gravel would still be bad? In this way, the rocks wouldn't be putting pressure on the soil. Right?:rolleyes:

2. I would like to have a thicker layer of soil at the back of the tank but this would conflict with the "1inch potting mix+1inch gravel" rule. Is there a way to have a thicker layer at the back and still not risking to damage the soil in the medium/long run?

3. I was considering to dry start the tank. Does the nitrogen cycle still start in a dry start? Are there any complications?

4. I live in Manhattan, where the water should be soft. I am not sure whether I should put oyster shells mixed with the potting mix or not. My final goal is to have Hemianthus callitrichoides, duckweed and some other plant that I am still not sure about + some crystal red shrimp.
Would the oyster shell be a bad idea considering that I would like to have crystal red shrimps?

5. Would using ADA Aquasoil Amazonia be a bad idea?(on top of the potting mix)

6. Would mineralizing the soil be still helpful if i dry start the tank or it would be no as important?

I might be missing some information that you need, so please ask me:)

If you have suggestions and advice I would be happy to hear.

Thank you!:clap2:
 
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#2 ·
That sounds like a lot for a 1.3G Nano. ADA Aquasoil is a great substrate and is actually easier to work with then going soil. Using a soil-based substrate usually comes with light limitations, thus plant limitations and HC does like light.

Your best bet for having an HC carpet IMO is to use Aquasoil and co2, although you might be able to do it with excel. Problem with DSM, is once you flood it the co2 levels won't be what they were before and the plants have to transition to submersed growth. If growth slows algae might set in.

If your going to use lower light demanding plants, you could certainly use a soil-based setup.
 
#3 ·
Welcome to APC! See my comments below.

1. I see that having rocks in this kind of tank is not a good idea, but I would really like to have a few. Do you think that putting 2 rocks directly on the bottom, before putting the organic mix soil and gravel would still be bad? In this way, the rocks wouldn't be putting pressure on the soil. Right?:rolleyes:

That will work perfectly.

2. I would like to have a thicker layer of soil at the back of the tank but this would conflict with the "1inch potting mix+1inch gravel" rule. Is there a way to have a thicker layer at the back and still not risking to damage the soil in the medium/long run?

Where you want the soil to be or look deeper, build up the bottom of the tank by using pieces of tile laid directly on the bottom glass. This way you can get the level change you want without having a thicker layer of soil and cap.

3. I was considering to dry start the tank. Does the nitrogen cycle still start in a dry start? Are there any complications?

I agree with House of Cards on this.

4. I live in Manhattan, where the water should be soft. I am not sure whether I should put oyster shells mixed with the potting mix or not. My final goal is to have Hemianthus callitrichoides, duckweed and some other plant that I am still not sure about + some crystal red shrimp.
Would the oyster shell be a bad idea considering that I would like to have crystal red shrimps?

Oyster will help with soft water.

5. Would using ADA Aquasoil Amazonia be a bad idea?(on top of the potting mix)

There is no point in putting Aquasoil on top of soil, but it won't hurt anything. In many ways, Aquasoil mimics the characteristics of natural top soil.

6. Would mineralizing the soil be still helpful if i dry start the tank or it would be no as important?

Yes, it still helps but isn't quite so important.

I might be missing some information that you need, so please ask me:)

The HC is likely to give you problems without CO2. You might try Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' or Masilea instead.

If you have suggestions and advice I would be happy to hear.

Thank you!:clap2:
 
#4 ·
Thanks a lot houseofcards and Michael for the quick reply and the welcome!:D:D

I feel that I need to give up on the idea of having a nice carpet of Hemianthus callitrichoides, fair enough.

Michael, the two other plants you suggested(Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' and Masilea) seem to be a good alternative. I think I will opt for the Micranthemum, since it looks to have smaller leaves and a lower height. (right?)

I really like the idea of putting tile laid to build up the bottom. Should I just put them in or I should avoid water and sediments getting through the split between the tile and the glass? (silicone?)
Should I be aware of any chemical release from the tile?:confused:

I think I will mineralize the soil because, considering the small amount I need, is not going to take a lot of effort. I will just wet it and dry it at the sun 2/3 times, and add a bit of oyster shell powder.

The reason for using ADA aquasoil is because I think (from what I understood reading online) that it would be a good soil for the shrimp to "graze" being more porous, but I am not sure that this makes sense.

Other plants I am considering using are: Echinodorus tenellus, Eleocharis parvula, Eleocharis acicularis, Utricularia graminifolia, and Riccia fluitans (plus duckweed for filtration sake). This to let you understand the kind I like if you have advice or better option I am happy to hear it.:)

Thanks!

P.S. In general I would like to avoid using CO2.
 
#5 ·
'Monte Carlo' has smaller leaves and looks more like HC. But it will get taller than Marsilea, and requires an occasional trim. 'Monte Carlo' is a much lighter yellow green than Marsilea. When you finalize your other plant choices, you could select the carpet plant that gives the best contrast with your other plants.

Most ceramic and stone tile is chemically inert, so I don't think you have much to worry about. No need to silicon the tile in place, just lay it as tightly as you can, avoiding big gaps.
 
#6 ·
I had no trouble with HC (Hemianthus callitrichoides) in a 2 gal tank that I started with the DSM. It was a good grower and took over the tank and kept going fine for 2 years until I took the tank down. It did not do well in larger tanks where it had to compete with Cryptocoryne and larger plants. However, it did spectacularly well in this small tank. Of course, I had no filtration and used very gentle air bubbling (one bubble every few seconds). You really shouldn't need a filter for this tank. I suspect it will drive out the CO2.

If you like HC, I would give it a try. The more species you can start out with the better. It's hard to predict ahead of time which species will adapt to your conditions.

If you use an organic soil, it will produce plenty of CO2 to get HC going fine for at least 6 months. Because this is such a tiny tank, you may want to use a less deep layer of soil and sand. For small plants, I would use 3/4 inch of soil and 1/4 inch of sand.

If you Dry Start the soil, you are in essence mineralizing the soil at the same time.

And don't worry about the nitrifying bacteria. They'll be doing fine wet or dry.
 
#7 ·
Thanks Diana for giving advice and reporting your experience as well!

I feel I like Hemianthus callitrichoides so much that I have to give it a try, it might work. And if it does not, re-doing a 1.3gallon is not a big deal, but rather a lesson learned.
If I had a bit more surface I would probably start both the Hemianthus callitrichoides and the "Monte Carlo" to see which one works better, but that is not the case. So I will keep the "Monte Carlo" as a good plan B.

I will post some pictures as soon as I start!
 
#8 ·
Just to clarify my statements further. I didnt recommend the HC simply because it's not the easiest plant to grow without co2. I realize there will be co2 in the substrate but once it transitions from DSM not only will the co2 be different, but the plant itself has to transition from emersed to submersed growth. Because HC requires a certain amount of light this could be challenging when the growth slows.

The word challenging is key. If your experienced like Diane and myself it's easier to pick things up and make adjustments when your new at this you won't see those things.

Certainly you can try it, as you said it's only a 1.3G, but the plants Michael mentioned are easier to grow.

Just for the record here's one my older 1G setups with HC and no co2.



 
#9 ·
Thanks houseofcards for the clarification. The message (was and) is clear; it is going to be challenging. But maybe with your help and some luck it will work. :smile:

Your photos are amazing and the setup is very similar to what I have in mind.

I just bought this tiles to build up the bottom an inch or so:

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Bestview-Grey-Linen-Polished-Linear-Mosaic-Glass-Wall-Tile-Common-12-in-x-13-in-Actual-12-52-in-x-11-73-in/1000003330

It's glass so it should be ok in the tank and every tile measure 1.5x6inches, so it should fit perfectly.
 
#10 · (Edited)
I was at a local store today and I saw some very nice Seriyu stone. I checked online and I see that they alter the chemistry in the tank (higher Ph and KH).

Considering that NYC water is soft (I have read of people saying it is even too soft with KH between 0 and 2) and the soil should lower the Ph, do you think is a hazard to have a couple of those stone in my tank? I would get two, size 3x3x4 inches maximum.
I would like to have a Ph <7 so in the future I can have some Crystal Red shrimps.
Would the soil still keep the Ph in the wanted range or the stones will prevail?
Any opinion? Thanks!
(if it is better to avoid Seriyu I would probably go with Dragon stone which are Ph neutral)
 
#12 ·
Here we are, ready to set this pico tank up!
I got the sand, the dragon stones, the Hemianthus Callitrichoides and an oyster shell today!

Last minute questions:

-How much oyster shell should I use in the soil? and how fine should it be? (I went through Diana's book but I didn't find an answer, neither I did on google)

-The dragon stone I have are pretty light, about 0.4pound each. I am planning to use two of them. Is it still important to put them on the bottom of the tank, before the soil, or since they are not that heavy I can just put them over the soil before I put the sand?

I am going to upload the picture once I am done, so you can give me some feedback if you like. Thanks!
 
#13 ·
IIRC, what I have read said to sprinkle a dusting of oyster shell over one of your substrate layers. I do not recall any required grit. When I think of OS, I think of the OS I give my chickens; It has all different sizes in it, from chunks to dust.

The thought on rocks on top of substrate is it will cause anaerobic pockets. That said, I have always had rocks and driftwood sitting in my tanks and have never had a sniff of sulfer dioxide.
 
#14 ·
Thank s2man for sharing your experience.

I finally set the tank up!
I have taken photos of all the steps and I will post them as soon as I have a bit more time.
My only question at the moment is: is it okay having little bubbles of air in the soil?

I attach here just one photo to show you the result. (in the photo you will see just the sand, but there is soil too)

 
#18 ·
Thanks Michael!

As you can see there is some unplanted space in the back, I would plant it with Pearl weed (Hemianthus Micranthemoides).
I have read that it grows really fast and that is pretty and it tends to spread all over the tank.
Would it overwhelm the HC?
Shoud I wait until I fill the tank with water?
 
#20 ·
hoppycalif, Eleocharis parvula was my plan at the beginning. But then I switched to Pearl weed because I would like to have a similar effect to the one in the picture below.

Is there any particular reason for which you suggest Eleocharis parvula?
I might try to plant both,Pearl weed on the back-left and Eleocharis parvula on the back-right.

 
#21 ·
hoppycalif, Eleocharis parvula was my plan at the beginning. But then I switched to Pearl weed because I would like to have a similar effect to the one in the picture below.

Is there any particular reason for which you suggest Eleocharis parvula?
I might try to plant both,Pearl weed on the back-left and Eleocharis parvula on the back-right.
Why not try out both species? See which one does the best or gives you the effect that you like. You cannot always be sure that one species will survive under your tank's conditions.

Your sand layer looks pretty deep for these tiny plants. Their roots will have trouble penetrating such a deep layer to the soil.

And if this is a dry start (DSM), there's no reason to have such a deep layer. You see, by the time the plants cover a thin sand layer, the soil particles will be held together by the plant roots, soil mineralization, bacterial biofilm development, etc. In my shrimp DSM tanks, I did not add any sand during the dry phase. No need to.

Of course, if this is a regular setup where you add the water soon after planting, you will need more sand to hold the soil down. Even then, I would use a little less than what you show. I would get out a soup spoon and take out at least half of that sand depth.

That said, I love your aquascaping and the rocks. It's art!
 
#26 ·
Here the steps. The white pieces you can see on the soil are chips of oyster shell. I also mixed some oyster shell powder with the soil.

In the last photo the sand layer has been reduced.
Looks good!

I personally like the tiles, because you can stack them so neatly and orderly. Also, the tiles are inert. I would not use a plastic support unless I was very confident that the material would not rot over time and leach chemicals into the water.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Some updates: the HC is slowly growing and it looks healthy. (see photo)

I am planning to plant some Hemianthus micranthemoides, but I don't know when.
Should I wait a bit more and wait till I fill the tank with water?(I am not sure whether I can put it in during the dry phase since the stem does not look too supportive, but maybe is even better to introduce it now... I don't know. )
When would it be good for me to fill the tank with water?(considering that the 6 weeks that Diana suggests in her shrimp tanks article seems an eternity to my impatience desire to fill the tank :rolleyes: )
Considering that my final goal is to have a few red crystal shrimp in it, how do you think could be the fastest way to introduce them without risking? What are the steps that I should take?

Right now the light is on 14 consecutive hours per day.

Thanks!


upload an album
 
#33 ·
Considering that my final goal is to have a few red crystal shrimp in it, how do you think could be the fastest way to introduce them without risking? What are the steps that I should take?

Right now the light is on 14 consecutive hours per day.
Keeping CRS in a tiny, soil-based tank is going to be problematic. CRS require stable, very clean water (organic-waste wise) and your tank will be neither. You could try Red Cherry Shrimp (not as sensitive) and see how they do, but still not an ideal situation.
 
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