[Wet Thumb Forum]-soil rotting and killing all the fish inside!!! - El Natural

hubbahubbahehe · 03-06-2004, 05:17 PM

Hi all, if you've done lots of research on soil tanks on the internet as i have, then odds are you will run into websites that say they've used the soil method with great success in the beginning, but then all of a sudden, it stinks like crazy, all the fish die and they have to tear down their tanks.... here's my theory on why that is and i would like to get some feedback from the "el natural" pros. my theory is that the soil was unstable and had lots of anaerobic spots that rotted and resulted in the fish deaths, however, if one would weather out this storm and leave the soil in instead of tearing it down, that this period would fade and afterwards would be a perfect substrate for plants! what do yall think?

hubbahubbahehe · 03-06-2004, 05:17 PM

Hi all, if you've done lots of research on soil tanks on the internet as i have, then odds are you will run into websites that say they've used the soil method with great success in the beginning, but then all of a sudden, it stinks like crazy, all the fish die and they have to tear down their tanks.... here's my theory on why that is and i would like to get some feedback from the "el natural" pros. my theory is that the soil was unstable and had lots of anaerobic spots that rotted and resulted in the fish deaths, however, if one would weather out this storm and leave the soil in instead of tearing it down, that this period would fade and afterwards would be a perfect substrate for plants! what do yall think?

Jo · 03-06-2004, 06:44 PM

It does seem that if given the time and you have patience, then eventually it would work itself out.

I have used soil in my aquariums for many years- with no rotting or foul smell.

What did you use exactly? How much?

If you can get the "underdog" at work in your tank- Certain snails/worms-etc. They will stirr your sand/dirt for you- and possibly prevent anaerobic spots from forming.
There is a whole cycle to things, a "circle of life" if you will, that makes things work.

Maybe this is why I have had so much success?

Interesting post you have here.

Octopusses ate my gooses while the mooses ate my cheese!

dwalstad · 03-07-2004, 02:35 AM

I've never had such a problem. I can imagine that it could happen, though. Three pitfalls I can predict would be:

Making soil layer too deep, such that the very bottom goes anaerobic. Hobbyists that layer their tanks with 4-6 inchs of potting soil are going to have problems. That's why I recommend a 1 to 1.5 inch layer of potting or garden soil covered with 1 to 1.5 inches of gravel (not sand).

Using antibiotics in the planted tank. These could kill the soil bacteria, which are extremely numerous in soil. Dying bacteria, just like those that might die in an overloaded canister filter, could poison the tank.

Adding large quantities of inorganic fertilizers to soil. Adding sulfate-containing fertilizers to potting soil is a real no-no. Sulfate is converted to hydrogen sulfide, the stinky, toxic gas you're describing. The high organic content and low iron content of potting soil increase the likelihood of this happening. That's why I strongly recommend against fertilizing substrates. Fishfood added to the tank is all the fertilzer plants need.

I've seen enough postings on internet about adding Job's Sticks, plant tabs, etc, etc to soil substrates to know that a lot of hobbyists are going to have problems with soil.

Fertilizers are not necessary if you feed your fish well and don't continuously change water and clean the tank.

Diana Walstad

hubbahubbahehe · 03-08-2004, 08:06 AM

one thing i always wanted to ask you, Ms. Walstad, is : what are your thoughts on using kitty litter as a substrate? for example, the special kitty kitty litter from walmart.

dwalstad · 03-08-2004, 01:18 PM

Theoretically, I don't think much of using kitty litter, because it contains very little organic matter. Plus, unlike potting soil, it is not designed to grow plants.

In contrast, potting soil is designed to grow plants. With its high content of organic matter, it adds a lot of CO2 to the tank. Plants get off to a great start.

However, this is all theory. The only way to really know is to do a comparison test using pots, putting one plant in kitty litter and another similar plant in a pot with a potting soil.

Diana Walstad

hubbahubbahehe · 03-08-2004, 04:32 PM

Ok, Ms. Walstad, sounds like kitty litter is not the way to go.

I just had another thought, in one of my 20G tanks, i have a 4 inch thick layer of eco-complete (in another 20G i have a 4 inch layer of flourite). I was thinking of "spot fertilizing" these two tanks with soil cubes. perhaps not a thick 4 inch layer of soil...but like end up with say 20% of soil ....would that help make the substrate better or be too rich?

The reason I want to do this is to add CO2 to the tank and also other nutrients that eco-complete or flourite might not have.

dwalstad · 03-09-2004, 04:38 AM

This is a tough question. You are wanting to mix methods (low-tech and high-tech) and also you are talking about mixing soils. I don't advocate either one.

Fluorite and Eco-complete are commercial products that, in my opinion, should be used according to the manufacturer's specifications. If they are designed to be used with CO2 injection and trace element fertilization, then that is the way they should be used. You should be able to get plenty of help from other people on how to get the best out of these products.

I can't help you on this one. Once you've laid down a substrate, you've made a committment.

By the way, I've heard very good things about Eco-complete from Peter Bradley, who's company sets up commercial tanks in England. I'd give these substrates a chance.

Diana Walstad

hubbahubbahehe · 03-09-2004, 06:45 AM

Hi Ms. Walstad,

Good points. Thanks.

hubbahubbahehe · 03-09-2004, 08:13 AM

oh wait, you might have misunderstood me, i was thinking of adding co2 and traces to flourite in the form of soil, not pressurized co2 injection and pmdd trace....

the reason i was thinking of doing this is i have all the pmdd and also diy co2, but it's been taking up too much of my time. my idea was to add a few soil cubes to provide co2 so i wouldn't have to worry bout proper co2 ppm levels...(it doesn't even have to be 20% maybe just 5% of the substrate)... also i have been having problems overdosing with pmdd and i can't seem to get everything right...

so, in essence, the only thing "high tech" is the use of flourite....

but if you still advise against this, then i won't do it...