[Wet Thumb Forum]-Calling all keepers of Peat-filtered Water Tanks

[TommyBoy]

I am looking for others that use and are well-expereineced using peat-filtered water in their tanks.

I am using peat-filtered water for my Anabantoids "community tank" and it's been an interesting challenge since much of the hobby guidance that I've gotten through forums/newsgroups is for "clear water" tanks (e.g., lighting WPG, yeast (or other) CO2, plant selection, etc.).

I've also not been very successful looking up and finding much guidance on peat-filtered water in books or on the Internet/Web. Something more than a mention, a filter diagram, or other brief allusion of the like (e.g., "use peat to soften your water" or "use peat to lower your pH"). [I should probably mention a noteworthy exception: http://hjem.get2net.dk/Best_of_the_...at%20page.html]

Does anyone else peat-filter their water?
- Perhaps we can pm each other when we'd like help.
- Or, perhaps a sticky could be added to a thread (or threads) that provides guidance/tips, etc.

Anyone got any thoughts?

--TommyBoy

[Scarlett]

I am interested in this too, also in using oak leaves or other types of leaves.

I've been using oyster grit in my filter. This has made the water plenty hard, but my ph is always around 8. I believe this inhibits my plants and am thinking about taking it out. When my substrate was relatively new and giving off lots of CO2, lowering the ph would immediately cause the plants to start pearling O2.

[flagg]

I don't currently run any peat filtration (not good for my tanganyikan cichlids and my 10G planted has no filtration other than plants). However, when I was keeping south american fish w/ low pH and softwater requirements, I set up my 30gal w/ a fluval 204 and put peat pellets in a filter bag and added that to the top layer of the filter. Whenever I cleaned the filter, I also changed the peat. I had some swords, cabomba, hornwort and other plants growing in there and they all thrived, especially the red rubin sword which got HUGE, which is interesting b/c from what I've read, swords generally need hardish water. My pH and KH were always pretty low and I never experienced any pH crashes. My biggest question was always how much peat to add and I never had any hard and fast formula. I just added a couple of tablespoons and that seems to have been enough. I've never found any details on exactly how much peat to add to a filter. Most of what I've read just seems to say that you need to experiment until you get your pH to the level that you want.

Another thing you could do that my friend's father does (who breeds lots of difficult, soft water needing cichlids) is he sets up a 30 gal trash can outside to collect rain water. If I'm not mistaken, the bottom of the trash can is lined with a think layer of peat and he circulated the water w/ a powerhead. I THINK that's how he does it though, I'm not 100% sure. Seems like it would work though!

Hope that provides some food for thought.

-ricardo

[TommyBoy]

Thanks rick6805 and Scarlett.

I posted similar querries in various forums and newsgroups that I am member of and discovered the following:

a) It seems the use of peat (and/or other humic/tannin sources) is often mentioned for its effects, but the practical "How To's" are lacking {"My biggest question was always how much peat to add and I never had any hard and fast formula. ...I've never found any details on exactly how much peat to add to a filter. Most of what I've read just seems to say that you need to experiment until you get your pH to the level that you want."}.

It seems such practicals are thus hobby "art" (or techne)

b) No one seems to know exactly the difference it makes in your tank whether one uses peat, ketapang (aka Indian Almond or Catappa), extracts of either, other recommended leaves (Oak, Elm, Eucalyptus, Plane Tree, and/or Banana Tree), or even "dead tea bags" {"I haven't seen anyone actually do a side by side comparison but that would make a great article if someone wanted to experiment with keeping and breeding using different humic and tannin/non-tannin conditions."}.

c) Purported benefits of each/all range from softening and lowering pH... "to improve breeding," "to keep mold at bay," "to improve egg survival," "to make nearly opaque soup needed by some species of killifish and Wild Betta to even breed," and "antiseptic properties."

d) And finally, WRT who uses which one when, as one person admitted: "For some reason, I've always associated ketapang/banana with bettas and peat/black water extract with amazon biotope/south american cichlids." That's all.

So it seems many/most/all the properties and benefits of the above listed (or other variously prescribed) humic/tannin sources as well as which of them to use when may be not much more than "hobby legend" based on hearsay and anecdotes.

Given the apparent gaps in our hobby knowledge,
1) I'd like to again invite others of this forum that peat-filter (or use other tannin and humic sources), to include that in their profile and pm each other when any of us would like help.
2) I'd like to formally ask that we start a sticky thread within the AquaBotanic/"The All Wet Thumb Community" (perhaps in "El Natural") dedicated to the use of peat and other humic/tannin sources within the hobby.
3) I'd like to invite any college students within the AquaBotanic/"The All Wet Thumb Community" to consider studying and/or conducting experimental research on any/all the listed tannin and humic sources available within the hobby (e.g., as to their properties, benefits, dosing, periodicity, etc.) [Please see quote in item "b)" above.].

Hoping to hear back from others again on this topic,
--TommyBoy

[flagg]

Tommyboy:

I agree that there is a lack of information out there as to how much peat to use in a tank. As to the matter of humic substances in general, Diana's book discusses the benefits of DOC quite extensively. If I remember correctly, the major benefit is that the DOCs will bind to different toxic metals and thus make them non-toxic to fish.

As to using leaves in tanks, I've had success using indian almond leaves when breeding bettas. It's my understanding that these help keep the fish healthy, more than likely for the same reasons Diana mentions DOC to be benefial...

In any case, I say start experimenting with peat and see what works. I used to also use Kent's blackwater extract with very good results.

-ricardo

[TommyBoy]

I think you and I are "on the same page"/agreeing with each other on the GENERAL information available from Diana's book on DOC. And, I find your caveat helpful in modifying my previous post.

I guess, however, that I believe you may be missing a point: I wonder whether there is more here that could benefit hobbists and which appears to be evident from the existence and variety of "hobby legends" and humic/tannin sources. For example, the list of tree leaves is quite diverse. It lists a range of tree types from aromatics onwards. And, could not one except that their properties and benefits would reflect (in some way) that diversity?

Additionally, by what mechanism do these diverse tree leaves ("best"), or other humic/tannin sources, impart their properties and benefits? For example, do Almond and Eucalyptus (which can be irritants to humans) oils (or DOCS) impart higher concentrations by slow leaching or fast (e.g., the difference between putting them in a bag in your tank vs filtering vs boiling)? Is there a difference in properties as there is in tea leaves (which is one of the humic/tannin sources mentioned to me by other hobbists), and what is/are the associated risks/benefits to the fish as well as to the plants?

Finally, I think I hear you agreeing on the need for a sticky post/forum. How else can we report back to others here within an organized manner our own experiments within my tanks? So everyone in the hobby and this forum gets the greatest benefits?

--TommyBoy