Go Back   Aquatic Plant Central > General Interest Forums > El Natural
User Name
Password

Advertise on APC

El Natural Diana Walstad's low-maintenance, soil-based 'El Natural' method for keeping plants and fish.


Register and remove some of the ads
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-11-2008, 03:51 AM   #11
ultrajamie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19
iTrader Ratings: 0
ultrajamie is a regular member
Plant Points: 1600
Default Re: The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

Thanks.... It's a little cloudy today.. going to give it a few days and if the clouding doesn't clear i'll do some big water changes.
ultrajamie is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Advertisements - Register Today! Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
To avoid seeing this ad in our forum please register at AquaticPlantCentral.com

By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features.
Old 05-11-2008, 06:04 AM   #12
dwalstad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 592
iTrader Ratings: 0
dwalstad is a regular member
Plant Points: 26025
Default Re: The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

Dear Folks,

There's a lesson here for those who want to do NPTs without truly understanding aquarium ecology. Jamie's first tank looks beautiful, but it has the potential for the substrate to go anaerobic (and toxic).

Jamie's first substrate (clay/laterite) has very little organic matter and is the type (unlike potting soil) that resists going anaerobic. However, even the most aerobic substrate will go bad if you don't allow oxygen exchange.

All those rocks and driftwood covering the sand make it hard for oxygenated water to enter the substrate layer. Natural driftwood, no matter how well-cured) can sometimes rot (releasing DOC) where it contacts the substrate. Finally, the sand layer, which "seals" the substrate much more so than gravel, is too deep (Thus, I recommend a one inch layer of gravel, but much less if you're using sand.)

My advice would be to remove the driftwood and many of the rocks. Any rocks should be resting on the bottom of the glass, not lying on top of substrate. I'd get some Malaysian Trumpet Snails (their burrowing will bring oxygenated water into the substrate). I'd plant the tank more heavily.

The "aquascaping look" to this tank and the emphasis on the filter rather than understanding aquarium ecology is what concerns me here.
dwalstad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2008, 09:00 AM   #13
newbie314
Senior Member
 
newbie314's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sacramento Regional Distr
Posts: 435
iTrader Ratings: 10
iTrader Positive Rating: 100%
newbie314 is a regular member
Plant Points: 27950
Default Re: The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

I didn't know we should be resting rocks on the glass bottom. That's interesting.
I've been seeing some real big bubbles from the rock bridge and I assumed the compression from the weight of the rocks.

So what happens in a natural environment, just soil exposed.
newbie314 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 08:33 PM   #14
bratyboy2
Senior Member
 
bratyboy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Ravenna,Ohio
Posts: 555
iTrader Ratings: 1
iTrader Positive Rating: 100%
bratyboy2 is a regular member
Plant Points: 30350
Default Re: The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

cant wait to see filled in in a couple of weeks.
bratyboy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 01:03 AM   #15
Kosh42|EFG
Junior Member
 
Kosh42|EFG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, UK
Posts: 11
iTrader Ratings: 0
Kosh42|EFG is a regular member
Plant Points: 1050
Arrow Re: The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

Glad I read this... I've read the book a few times, and my one query was around what to do with large rocks and bog wood in the tank, but no I know to but it on the glass, then put in substrate...

Other query was around if I wanted to build up deeper areas of substrate, and how to stop them going nasty deep down... I suppose one method would be to plant a prolific rooter there, such as an Amazon Sword...

Sorry, I seem to be thread hijacking...

Tank looks good, but I'd heed some of the warnings...
Kosh42|EFG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 05:57 AM   #16
ultrajamie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19
iTrader Ratings: 0
ultrajamie is a regular member
Plant Points: 1600
Default Re: The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

Ok... update time.

First the bad news... looks like i'm being made redundant from work. This is fairly tought because i realy love my job and in the two years I've worked where I am, I've never had a project not succeed or come in over budget. However, we've got a new MD and he wants to 'refocus' our marketing team (i.e. get rid of it) - it's fairly annoying to have achieved everything that was asked of you and then have someone say 'oh well, you shouldn't have been doing those things anyway'. I've only worked there 2 years, so will get about £600 as a pay out. great.

In light of this, I'm putting some of the 'luxury items' that I can sell on ebay - specifically some fish things people here might want (if you're in the UK that is). If you want an Eheim filter, Vecton 2 600 UV, of the glassware in this thread, you can check it out here :

http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQsassZgenki-rocket

On a brighter note, the tank is doing GREAT.

Some changes, though:

- removed my pair of jewel cichlids. They spawned twice since the tank was changed. At first i was delighted... then they started pulling up every plant within 6" of their eggs. Given that the roots weren;t well formed they made quite a mess and so had to go. This made me sad because they were STUNNING when in breeding colours

- just after the tank was planted my vallis took a weird turn and lots of the leaves started to melt - never seen that before, it looked like it was going to die. this stopped after a week or so, and growth is V good now... my red serpent vallis still looks a bit grim though and only has a couple of leaves left.

- by big common angel spawned with the smallest common - i'm assuming the small one was the female because they only laid about 15 eggs! they managed to last 2 days before eating them. typical angels!

- crypts have loads of new leaves, but v-small ones as yet.

- swords starting to really grow fast over the last few days.

- water clarity is amazing in this tank, not sure why that should be, but it's gin-clear.

Anyway... on with the pics.










I'm quite pleased so far. No algae to speak of.

Stock:

9 angelfish
4 bronze corys
9 ottos

Thats all for now!!
ultrajamie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 06:02 AM   #17
ultrajamie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19
iTrader Ratings: 0
ultrajamie is a regular member
Plant Points: 1600
Default Re: The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

Diana,

Thanks for the comments... I've added several more different plant species since the rebuild - as you can see in the pics above - i've also raised the driftwood off the substrate (it's held up with a sucker above the water line and resting on a pebble so will keep an eye on it.

I've added some hygrophilia as i was told it's a really good plant for mopping up excess nutrients in the water.

I'm also removing the canister and the tank will be filtered by the eheim sponge filter.


Were your comments relating to the first tank or this one? I've taken care to change the things i thought made my first tank go bad. Ad had thought the layer of larger-grain bio media in the substrate would help keep things aerobic?

Last edited by ultrajamie : 05-25-2008 at 06:09 AM.
ultrajamie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2008, 08:41 PM   #18
Revernance
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 316
iTrader Ratings: 12
iTrader Positive Rating: 100%
Revernance is a regular member
Plant Points: 18850
Default Re: The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwalstad View Post
Dear Folks,

There's a lesson here for those who want to do NPTs without truly understanding aquarium ecology. Jamie's first tank looks beautiful, but it has the potential for the substrate to go anaerobic (and toxic).

Jamie's first substrate (clay/laterite) has very little organic matter and is the type (unlike potting soil) that resists going anaerobic. However, even the most aerobic substrate will go bad if you don't allow oxygen exchange.

All those rocks and driftwood covering the sand make it hard for oxygenated water to enter the substrate layer. Natural driftwood, no matter how well-cured) can sometimes rot (releasing DOC) where it contacts the substrate. Finally, the sand layer, which "seals" the substrate much more so than gravel, is too deep (Thus, I recommend a one inch layer of gravel, but much less if you're using sand.)

My advice would be to remove the driftwood and many of the rocks. Any rocks should be resting on the bottom of the glass, not lying on top of substrate. I'd get some Malaysian Trumpet Snails (their burrowing will bring oxygenated water into the substrate). I'd plant the tank more heavily.

The "aquascaping look" to this tank and the emphasis on the filter rather than understanding aquarium ecology is what concerns me here.
Reading that had me worried because I have a huge rock about 9 inches sitting on top of my substrate. When I first put the substrate, it was only less than half an inch thick, so I hope that area won't go anaerobic!
Revernance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 07:11 AM   #19
ultrajamie
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 19
iTrader Ratings: 0
ultrajamie is a regular member
Plant Points: 1600
Default Re: The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

Just a quick update.... apologies for the quicke and dirty pics!

On set up:





Well....

It's filling out slowly! Swords, crypts and valis is flying... everything else going slowly... some green algae but nothing major.

The internal filter isn't cutting it mechancally... the parameters check out fine, but there's fine particulate matter in the water (it's not milky, or a 'bloom', you can see the tiny particles up close)... it was clear so i guess that it's just not keeping pace once it starts to clog. Might have to add a canister back in...??? Your thoughts?

Anyway....






The angels are growing nicely... they are fairly stroppy with each other, but the aggression seems well spread.

Today i added a few dwarf cichlids - 4 bolivian rams... and 4 keyholes. The rams are looking lovely already!
ultrajamie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2008, 03:56 PM   #20
krisco
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: tupelo
Posts: 25
iTrader Ratings: 2
iTrader Positive Rating: 100%
krisco is a regular member
Plant Points: 1750
Default Re: The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

very nice photography and tank.
krisco is offline   Reply With Quote
Remove Advertisements - Register Today! Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
To avoid seeing this ad in our forum please register at AquaticPlantCentral.com

By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features.
Reply


Aquatic Plant Central > General Interest Forums > El Natural > The Angel Garden - Jamie's El Natural Journey Part 2

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:15 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.


Copyright © 2006 - 2008 Aquatic Plant Central | About Aquatic Plant Central | Legal | A member of the Crowdgather Forum Community
Created by Blue Moose Designs
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=