squidlips

Would a soil substrate still be recomended if I was only using slow growing plants , eg crypts and/or plants that are not rooted in the substrate , eg anubia, java fern etc.

Craig

NeonFlux

Yeah when you feel like you want more aquatic plants eventually (:

Forgotten Path

Not sure if soil would work well with non rooted plants...
The soil would be fine, but most of the nutrients the plants need are locked up in the soil.
Then again, I don't know much about Java Fern, Anubias, etc.

Alex123

Strange, what crypt plants aren't rooted? That's news to me. Why bother with dirt if you don't want rooted plants? Only reason is if you want to be able to do it in the future but then you have to deal with anaerobic condition in the soil with no root. Better to not have soil and if you change your mind do a rebuild.

queijoman

If you read about the El Natural, there are benefits to your tank of having a soil in addition to having a rich substrate for your plants. Stuff about beneficial bacteria, water filtration, C02 production, blah blah.

I started out my tank with anubias, java ferns, and crypt wendtii's for about 1 1/2 years with only pea gravel as a substrate and my plants did fine. I think that adding a little soil to your tank would be beneficial, but not necessary in this case.

It will be harder to get your tank started with a soil substrate because you will have to do frequent water changes inititally (almost daily) to keep the water parameters in check with your new soil, whereas without soil you won't have to do so much initially.

My 2 cents.

Alex123

Queijoman, I disagree. A soiled substrate without plant roots have no substantial benefit over a plain substrate. Plain substrate have just as much beneficial bacteria. CO2 is breakdown in bio matter in the soil. I doubt it would be much and in any case once the break in period, I don't see where CO2 will be coming from? It also is minimal compare to surface source as I can recall from Diana book.

dwalstad

No. I don't think its worth the trouble.

A soil underlayer is for those that want an ecosystem that includes the vigorous growth of rooted plants.

queijoman

OK thanks for the correction. I'm still a learner myself so I don't know all the ins and outs. The crypts would probably enjoy the soil substrate, though they can get along fine without it. Is it really true that a plain substrate (such as pea gravel) has as much beneficial bacteria as soil? Soil, by virtue of smaller particles has exponentially more surface area. P.S. I hope that I am not hijacking this thread going off on a tangent.

dwalstad

You may be in the wrong forum, but you are on the right track. Soil will have much, much more bacteria than gravel. For example, coarse sand of 1-2 mm diameter has 11 cm2/g suface area. Silt has 454 and clay has 8,000,000 cm2/g.* Increased surface area provides increased attachment sites for bacteria. That's why soil has billions of bacteria per gram and sand/gravel has much, much less.

You have to think from the bacterium perspective. You can live in a desert (gravel) or a Rain Forest (clay).

*Foth HD. 1978. Fundamentals of Soil Science. 6th Edition. John Wiley & Sons.