totziens

This is not a NPT specific topic but since I keep ferns in NPT as well, so I decide to post it here. Regardless I use NPT or non-NPT method, the problem is the same. Below is one example from my list of tanks.

I have been keeping plants over the years. Somehow ferns which are claimed to be the easiest aquatic plants always give me headache. I have been trying all kinds of method to overcome it but I have failed so far. Sometimes I even get contradicting advice. Example: some people told me to increase the light exposure but some ask me to decrease. Some claim that my temperature is too high but I have seen a friend who dumps her narrow leaf fern in a pot at the balcony without any fan or chiller...and she had no problem at all. Please help to identify the problem. Recently, due to the following tank broke, I decided to use ADA Amazonian soil but I doubt it will make any difference for ferns.

Problem:
Java/Phillipines/Narrow leaf ferns turn bald after several months or 1-2 years plus OR taken over by green spot algae.

Tank Size: 3 feet or 50 US gallon

Lighting: 144 watt of PL totally. Turned on for 8 hours a day. To be exact I turn it on for 4 hours, turn off for 1 hour, turn it on again for 4 hours

Filtration: Eheim 2215

Water temp: 28-29 degree Celsius even with a fan (82.4 - 84.2 degree Fahrenheit)

Fertilisation: Seachem products - Excel (whenever I see BBA only), Flourish (slightly less than a capful per week), Potassium (1 capful per week), Nitrogen (half a cap), Phosphorus (1 capful per week, started only last week), root tabs and ADA's iron are added once every 6 months (this is an estimation).

CO2: 3 bubbles per second

Substrate: Holland sand (added a packet of ADA Amazonian soil only yesterday)

Fauna. species & number: SAE (1), Ottos (6), Yellow Phantom Tetras (6), Cherry Barbs(maybe around 10), Kuhli Loach (6), Ember Tetras (about a dozen). I think it's overloaded

Flora: Anubias Nana, Subwassertang, Marsilea, various Crypts (i.e. Wendtii, Retrospiralis), Cyperus Helferi, Narrow Leaf Fern, Philippines Fern, Java Fern and Eleocharis Vivipara.

Philosophos

To be honest, I'm not sure why you'd list this system as a NPT. You're ferting, you've got 1.5wpg (upper end of NPT), you've got timers controlling for synth breaks and man-made substrate. I think you're coming to the dark side with this tank; it's okay, we've got cookies.

I'd suggest learning about your nutrients if you're going to fert. Figure out the ratios/ppm and why plants need them. DIY ferts will save you a pile of money, and the research will give you a nice chunk of knowledge about the hobby.

From there, slap on maybe .5wpg worth of lighting and tinker with the CO2 to compensate. Once you've got the basics of this, you'll have your choice of plants to master.

You wanted help with your java ferns? Unless they're getting torn apart by their own plantlets, or poisoned by some unknown variable, java fern will do just fine. Your problem with plants is hard to nail down because of the number of uncontrolled variables in your ferts; stabilizing this will fix your problem or give some meaningful indicators for everyone else.

And just for emphasis, I'm not posting on this thread as an effort to turn anyone away or towards any ideas arbitrarily. I'm just replying to what I see going on in this specific aquarium; it seems very close to being a mid-high tech system.

Best of luck with your tank. If you want help, I'd be glad to answer any questions that you've got.

-Philosophos

Aquaticz

Hi,
Seems that one thing affecting this tank is the lighting schedule. You are inturrupting mother nature
You need to let photosynthis do a complete cycle. Your plants are confused

Philosophos

A mid-day break is used to reduce algae, but it doesn't mess up the plants. Tons of people use this method; some have award winning tanks, others have cesspools. In and of its self, this method does not seem to determine the health of a tank. Whether it helps is something I've not closely studied.

If you want to copy nature purely because you think anything natural is beneficial, I would start with introducing ammonia loaded fecal matter in small parts, along with all the diseases it incurs. With natural as much as high tech, I think there needs to be sound reasons for actions rather than blind appeals to nature or xenophilia.

-Philosophos

Tanan

Samo problem with me tot,
my ferns either completely die or they got attacked by BGa so bad that I eventually ve to throw them out.I too ve a very high temp 32-35 C.But other plants seems to do well,even anachris in one of my tank did well with this high temp(died when I put it in NPT,with 3C low temp).

Zapins

Since there was only 1 line of description of the problem in the post I'm impressed by everyone's instant recognition of the problem, but I'm still a little unsure of what the plant is doing that is wrong?

Can you post a picture (or several) and a better description of the fern that isn't doing well? I don't really know what you mean by bald.

dwalstad

So your daylength is only 9 hr? Kasselmann (Aquarium Plants) recommends at least 12 hr for aquarium plants. This is kind of a basic, general requirement. Could be this isn't the problem for this particular plant species in your particular tank, but if your ferns are "daylength-sensitive", this could be the problem.

Everything else you're doing sounds reasonable.

totziens

The reason I post this in NPT section is ...like I said before I have multiple tanks and this is just one example of my list of tanks. I have NPT that faces the same problem. The main reason I pick this tank is it has more ferns than any other tanks and yes, it's a medium tech tank. Regardless, NPT or not, the problem is the same in all the tanks. I expect this medium tech tank to be less problematic as NPT but that's not the case. One thing I see similarity in all the tanks are high temperature and amount of light. CO2 or no CO2, fertiliser or no fertiliser, the ferns are still in a bad shape. Just like Tanan, the high temperature from our countries are hard to lower unless you use chiller which is very costly to run - this is not something that I want.

What I mean by "bald" is the leaves drop and never grow back. So only rhizome remains.

Diana, thanks for pointing out about the amount of light. I will try it out. I am willing to try anything to resolve this problem. That's the main reason I have tried all kinds of fertiliser whenever someone gives me an idea.

Zapins

I've grown ferns in 82F water, but 84 might be pushing it. Dropping leaves is a strange thing indeed... To rule out temperature problems take some of the ferns and put them in the coolest part of your house, the basement perhaps. To rule out nutrient problems and lighting issues try grow them emersed in the shade.

melauriga

Do you have the ferns planted in the substrate, or are they attached to driftwood or stone?