queijoman

Hi, I am the proud owner of the thread
Neons almost all died

I switched my tank over to El Natural probably 3 months ago or more. Since then everything has been good except lots of BBA and that I have been unable to add any new fish w/o them dying. The existing fish seem pretty happy. I am starting this new thread because I originally lost neons that I added but have since tried other fish and have had the same result. All the new neons, Angelfish, and Guppies have died. Maybe my BBA problem and new fish dying are two symptoms of the same cause?

I thought that I might add that the Miracle Grow potting soil has a large wood particle content, as does all potting soil available in las vegas. I don't know if that detail might shed light on anything.

Specs on my tank.
Substrate: Miracle Grow Organic Potting soil 3/4" + 3/4" gravel.
Fish: 2 Rainbows, 1 giant danio, 1 dwarf frog, 3 khuli loaches, 3 cories, ~3 ottos.
Lighting: 55w cf, + ~2 hours of window lighting. In all 12 hours per day including a 3 hour break in the middle
Size: 30g
Water: Las Vegas tap water w/ declorinator. Very hard, high PH 8.2+. Change of 50% water every other week. (at least until my algae goes away)
Filtration: 1 HOB filter w/ sponge media only
Dosing: I have been lightly dosing by adding a fertilizer tablet 1x per week to try and combat algae. (The instructions say 6x per week for my tank size)
C02: I have a hagen ladder w/ DIY co2 that has been running to add C02 until the soil kicks in, but I haven't changed my co2 brew in over 2 months so I don't think that it is affecting CO2 levels much. I plan on taking it out soon.

Natalia

Looks like something is wrong with you water, you need to check your water parameters. The old fish have gradually adjusted to your water chemistry but the new fish can not because the difference between the store water and your water is too big. They probably die from osmotic shock. I would not add anything new untill you figure out the cause.

Dustymac

Every time you change your water you feed the BBA with a new batch of nutrients from your very hard water.

All the fish I brought home from Petco didn't last a week. Fifty percent of those from Petsmart. All purchased from local fish guy and from Walmart are alive today or lived normally. Some are more than two years old. Sorry for brevity - on my cell phone.

Hope this helps,
Jim

Tex Gal

This statement confuses me. People do water changes to dilute the pollute. I understand that if he has hard water he could be adding some nutrients but it's always been my experience that water changes always help. Before I went high tech and high light, if I skipped water changes I inevitably ended up with BBA. If I kept up with them I did not. How can the new water coming in be more nutritious than the tank water complete with fish and substrate?

Can you tell me what you mean by your above statement? I'd like to understand. Thanks!

Dustymac

Sorry Tex Gal, I missed this one. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise; an iPhone isn't that great for
following such lengthy discussions.

About my suggestion to avoid water chnging: it depends. If you do hi-tech and dose your tank, you almost have to change the water to prevent the buildup of certain nutrients. In an NPT, you don't dose other than fish food. Some of the nutrients pass through the fish and go straight to the substrate without dissolving in the water so there is usually at lease one nutrient missing critical to algae growth.

Of course, if you do change the water and it's full of the missing nutrient then you've lost one of the great advantages of the NPT methodology. I have two tanks which haven't had a water change in about a year and they couldn't be healthier.

And it's particularly important to stop water changing if you believe as Phil does in allelopathy since
water changing will dilute toxins secreted by the plants to kill algae.

Jim
as

Philosophos

Actually I don't believe in tank-wide allelopathy. What I'm examining is excretion rates within the barrier layers of plant leaves. Other possibilities/contributing factors involve cell sloughing and germination control.

Water changes definitely reduce algae; it's mechanical removal of spores in the column.

-Philosophos

Zapins

I just assume Petco fish are sick to begin with so I raise the temperature of the water to 86F for a week after I buy them so the ich they inevitably have doesn't get established and kill them.

The miracle grow soil you used is not the best kind of soil to use. The company that makes miracle grow soil tends to load it up on fertilizers that leach into your water for months. You probably have a high ammonia level which kills the fish when they are added to the tank.

You certainly need to test the water and figure out what is going on before you buy more fish.

dwalstad

I see no mention of quarantining new fish. Its very risky adding new fish to an established tank.
BTW, its a beautiful tank.

Philosophos

Your BBA is a result of limiting CO2, which wouldn't surprise me given 55w for 12 hours plus sunlight. Not one of the species in your tank is something that requires that much light; you might as well reduce it.

Try an airstone as well; limited CO2 is better stable than fluctuating. By avoiding surface disturbance, you're basically hoping that the fish can breath fast enough to provide more CO2 than the plants can metabolize, which is unlikely given that they're cold blooded. Even the mass of your fish in terms of warm blooded animals will not have the metabolism to provide enough CO2. It's also been shown more than once (ask anyone at a hatchery) that limiting oxygen saturation will stunt your fish, and is another reason I like air stones in low tech.

I agree with Zapins about the substrate. The organic potting mix isn't loaded with NH4 based fertlizer, but it's full of organics that will head south on you quickly and turn in to NH4 if you've been having issues cycling the tank. It may be worth picking up a test kit.

But first, what symptoms are your fish showing before they die? I'd imagine decent diagnostics would save on a lot of conjecture and testing. The BBA may or may not be related to your high mortality rate.

-Philosophos

firefiend

I'd also look at your acclimation process... I usually take 5 to 6 hours to acclimate my fish. I'm not saying that you need to do the same. But it is another thing to consider.