Sludge and parasites in the NPT - El Natural

Joeinlondon · 11-07-2009, 07:10 AM

Dear All

I left a post recently concerning a lot of flashing that was going on my tank. This is a development of that.

Despite treating with Interpet No.7, my fish are still flashing, and some have little grey patches on their flanks - more likely where the mucous is 'inflamed' rather than an actual beastie.

In my small 40L NPT everything is fine - equally there is no sign of sludge on the bottom - as if a miracle fishkeeper is maintaining it for me! In my 200L, where these problems are occuring, there is some sludge and detritus which collects around the base of the plants. I am wondering if this is indicative of a too high biological load on the tank. The tank contains a breeding pair of Bolivian rams (who are causing havoc every month now by spawning), an older Bolivian ram, 7 cardinal tetras, 5 glass blood-fin tetras, an Ancistrus sp. and three Ottocinclus sp. When the rams spawn, I try and feed the fry with frozen cyclops - very messy. But I can't let them starve, now can I? Of course the rams go on the rampage when they spawn, and everything gets chased about, adding to stress levels.

But I note in pictures of your tanks Diana - you have no sludge visible - as is the case in my well running 40L. It is as if the levels are all in balance and everything gets broken down. I'm wondering if my 200L is overloaded, and thus providing a breeding ground for these parasites - whatever they are.

Should I thus be more traditional with my water changes - with a bit of hoovering up of this sludge? As this tank is going to become a marine tank in the future, I am having a sump built, so hopefully this might alleviate the bio-load (as there will be a lit refugium where I will grow some Hygrophillia or something).

Any input, as ever, would be much appreciated.

Joe

dwalstad · 11-11-2009, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeinlondon

Despite treating with Interpet No.7, my fish are still flashing...

In my small 40L NPT everything is fine - equally there is no sign of sludge on the bottom - as if a miracle fishkeeper is maintaining it for me! In my 200L, where these problems are occuring, there is some sludge and detritus which collects around the base of the plants. I am wondering if this is indicative of a too high biological load on the tank. Any input, as ever, would be much appreciated.

In some established tanks, I sometimes get little sludge patches in the corners. This debris releases plant nutrients, so I usually don't remove it.

Fish diseases are so common in the aquarium hobby that I hold my breath every time I buy a new fish. Cardinal tetras are particularly stressed by their capture and the whole selling process.

I wouldn't correlate sludge with fish disease. Rather, I would test for nitrites and ammonia. If levels are above zero, that's when you know the bio-load is too high. Even low levels of nitrites and ammonia can stress fish, rendering them susceptible to potential pathogens.

Philosophos · 11-13-2009, 12:11 AM

The bioload is definitely light for your tank size IMO. Ammonia and nitrite may tell part of the story, but a gradual over-feeding or messy foods may not show much; try a nitrate test. Unlike NO3 from sources like KNO3, you'll find organic nitrates are much harder on fish. Presuming you aren't dosing NO3, I'd try to keep NO3 down around 10ppm if possible.

Frozen cyclops is a messy food; much goes to waste and it breaks down quickly, which could very well cause ammonia spikes. Try testing NH4 the morning after feeding this stuff.

Cardinals are definitely prone to disease when under stress. I don't consider them the best of dithers from my personal experience in my early days. I lost many other fish due to stressed cardinals turning into little swimming schools of what could best be described as plague rats.

Quarentine the cardinals if the bolivians are healthy; no sense loosing a mated pair to a school that isn't in spawn. You may want to quarentine everything diseased for that matter since it's far easier to dose an unplanted tank, and you can change the water more frequently than what is recommended for NPT's. Frequent water changes are the closest thing you can get to wound irrigation and dressing changes when it comes to diseased fish.

-Philosophos

Joeinlondon · 11-13-2009, 04:21 AM

Dear Diana and Philosophos

Thank you for your replies.

I test for nitrate regularly (as I think it is the indicator for the NPT) and it is consistently around zero. This is with a good quality testing method. Less regular tests for Nitrite and Ammonia have never revealed anything but zero.

Unfortunately I think I now have a full blown case of velvet, or similar. While the Bolivians seem almost completely unaffected, with just the odd flick of a pelvic fin here and there, the cardinals have indeed turned into 'plague rats.' They've gone from being unaffected to being the worst affected. Some of them are quite old so it's not surprising to me that they're taking hits. I am now on my second week of treatment (Interpet No.7) having been advised that it may take several weeks to clear it. So I will persevere. I just pray that the Bolivians don't decide to spawn again. Any tips on dampening their ardour? The water temperature is 26 - perhaps I should lower this to a nice frosty 23 or something. I have no experience of this, though.

There is a major tank move of all these fish coming up, which will involve them sitting in a bare 70L tank for a couple of weeks (with egg-crate dividers). In the past when I do this I have put the plants in with them (just floating on the top). Can I save my plants, or are they for the bin? I'm kind of attached to some of those plants - having had many of them for over two years! I read once that you can dip them in a really strong solution of Sterazin (UK anti-fluke/parasite treatment). Any ideas on this one?

Thanks, Joe

Philosophos · 11-13-2009, 09:35 AM

Honestly, a 10 gal with a sponge filter or even just an air stone and regular water changes coupled with the correct medication will do more for those fish than decreasing the temperature.

As for the plant move, get a low level of light over them, throw in an air stone, and keep them in a strong nutrient solution on their own. Plant them in some gravel in the bottom of a stock bin for that matter. Plants are much easier to keep alive where fish aren't involved.

-Philosophos

dwalstad · 11-13-2009, 02:55 PM

[quote=Joeinlondon;505713]
Unfortunately I think I now have a full blown case of velvet, or similar.
There is a major tank move of all these fish coming up, which will involve them sitting in a bare 70L tank for a couple of weeks (with egg-crate dividers). In the past when I do this I have put the plants in with them (just floating on the top). Can I save my plants, or are they for the bin? I'm kind of attached to some of those plants - having had many of them for over two years! I read once that you can dip them in a really strong solution of Sterazin (UK anti-fluke/parasite treatment). Any ideas on this one?
QUOTE]

It sounds like you're fish are so diseased that it doesn't matter that you probably have perfect water conditions. Don't blame yourself.

I think your plants might be okay floating at the top. I've done this. Just make sure that they get light during the two week transition. What's to lose?