GAM055

Hi,

I have a 29 gallon tank and am considering doing an El Natural planted aquarium. Last time I did the plant growth was phenomenal, but the water was amber-colored and the canister filter kept capturing soil particles. The soil would particularly "explode", coming up through the gravel when removing or planting plants. (The Amano 2-part substrate was a disappointment in comparison, when it comes to plant growth.)

Has anyone tried those nylon mesh bags that hold filtration materials to hold the soil? I now live in an apartment so I can't take the tank out in the yard any more to hose it down when I (inevitably) get bored or want a different look after a few years. So a friend of mine suggested bagging the soil in those fine mesh nylon media bags.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks,

John

PS If the nylon media bags aren't going to work, I'm going to set up a 5-10 gallon El Natural planted tank (this time topped by a fine layer of sand), and skip soil altogether in the 29 gallon tank, instead putting in crushed coral topped & plain gravel, and add black mollies! As to plants, could anything else other than vallisneria survive the high pH and salinity of a molly tank?

aquatic tuna

I wouldn't try that ....If you set up a soil tank properly-you shouldnt have the soil "exploding" when you move plants around...keep reading,researching on this forum and tpt...you'll see most people don't have tanks with dirt leaching up through the cap...
HTH..

JeffyFunk

I think the main cause of the problems you saw was not having enough capping material. The capping material should be ~1-1.5'' for a larger, gravel type substance; ~0.5-1.0'' for a smaller, sand sized substance (sand packs down more densely so you don't need as much). Also be on the lookout for 'thin' spots and add more capping material as necessary. i've set up several tanks w/ soil sublayers and only have problems w/ water coloring and cloudiness if the soil is not capped correctly.

Removing or uprooting plants w/ large root systems like crypts and swords always results in the upheaval of some soil sublayer. Next time, before you decide to uproot such plants (1) turn off all water circulation for ~5 minutes, (2) uproot the plants slowly and straight up (if possible), (This will limit the area that the 'dirt cloud' spreads) (3) vacuum the gravel if necessary and (4) turn back on your water circulation. Sometimes, just waiting a little bit longer to turn back on the water circulation is needed for the soil particles to settle out of the water column. In a mature tank, the particles should settle out relatively quickly because of their bio-films (a newly set up tank would not have those bio-films on the particles, in comparison). A little vacuum graveling when uprooting plants may be necessary.

Also, tearing down soil tanks is an awful task. To call it messy is an understatement and there's really no way to make it easier.

GAM055

Thank you for your replies. So, if done correctly, how long does an El Natural tank last before the soil needs to be replaced?

Also, is Scotts Premium Topsoil OK? It is "regionally formulated with organic materials (including one or more of the following: peat, composted forest products, aged rice hulls or compost) and Sphagnum Peat Moss." I live in New England where peat and composted leaf litter are qabundant, so I am guessing they probably are their main ingredients.

Thanks again!

Michael

If correctly set up and maintained, El Natural tanks almost never need to have their soil replaced. This is because as the orignal nutrients are used from the soil, the soil absorbs more nutrients from the water (fish waste). With their high CEC, soil substrates retain this ability more or less indefinitely.

It is possible that an El Natural tank might develop a specific deficiency, but that nutrient could be added by the usual means (feeding the fish) or by fertilization.

If the Scotts Premium "Topsoil" is actually 100% organic material, then it is likely to be too rich at first. Real natural topsoil has a much lower percentage of organic matter, often only 10-20% with the rest composed of minerals in the form of clay, silt, and sand. This is why these completely organic "soils" often cause an ammonia spike when the tank is first filled. As with Miracle Grow Organic Choice Potting Mix (another 100% organic matter product), it helps a lot to mineralize the soil first, or at least soak and drain it several times. You can avoid or reduce the ammonia spike, and the tank becomes stable much more quickly.

JeffyFunk

Soil substrates can last for several years. I usually just lose interest in a tank after a while and feel like changing things up. That said, remember that a thicker soil layer is not necessarily better; If the soil layer is too thick, you'll end up w/ an (overly) anaerobic substrate (which is bad - The REDOX of a soil sublayer needs to be slightly aerobic / slightly anaerobic. Too high a REDOX is bad and too low a REDOX is bad, too.)

Personally, being an organic minded person, I'm not a big fan of (anything) Scott's. More importantly, I would try to find the cheapest top soil that you can find; It shouldn't contain things like bark or wood chips and the like; it should just be dirt. I think the Scott's product contains unnecessary stuff and will be more expensive than plain, generic top soil.

GAM055

Thank you all for your help!!!

As to Scotts, I totally agree that, deservedly, it's not a brand with a good "green" reputation, but indeed it was the cheapest topsoil they had at Home Depot!

mariannep

IMO it's not the capping layer what prevents water from being stained by tannins, rather it's the tannins being there and perhaps the water chemistry. Tanks have many factors to take into account. There are uncapped soil tanks with clear water and tanks with tannin tinges and no soil.

I do agree that soil exploding points to specific problems, most likely with anaerobic bacteria (too deep a layer of something). I'd think that solving that should be the first issue.

Cheers!

aquatic tuna

tannins are usually just in the first couple months...PURIGEN will help significantly during the initial period.