ray-the-pilot

I never said that my rate was right for everybody. I said it was right for me. How do you know that your rate is right for your fish and plants? Especially how do you know that it is right for your fish? Are they breeding?

ray-the-pilot

How do you know your plants have CO2 deficiency?

helgymatt

You know when the rate of CO2 is right when the plants are growing well and when the plants are not negatively affected. Fish show CO2 stress easily by gasping at the surface.

The idea is to have as much CO2 in the water, without harming the fish.

Plants won't show a CO2 deficiency, they will just grow much slower. CO2 is often the most limiting nutrient (carbon) in a closed aquarium system and when it is supplied, as we all know, we se an increase in growth rate.

Minsc

It varies from species to species. Rotalas will often become stunted and not display good coloration.
Toninas develop necrotic tissue and melt, especially the expensive ones

From what I have seen adding CO2 to the water is only half the story though. Without a decent rate of turnover, and a well layed out flow pattern, it is possible to have enough CO2 in the water column to kill fish, and still have carbon starved plants.

Minsc

On the topic of pH controllers:

The main benefit of a pH controller that I can see is that it will change the amount of CO2 added to the tank based on demand. After a major pruning, there should be less demand, and the controller will add a smaller amount of CO2. When the plants grow in, the controller can add more CO2 to the tank in order to maintain a constant pH.

Whereas, those of us who count bubbles, if we don't manually change the bubble count according to plant mass, it is very likely there is a gradual shift downwards in the available CO2 as the plants grow in, and a spike after a large pruning. Does this cause any problems? It is quite possible.

So, using a pH controller certainly has benefits, so why not use one?
With a pH controller, the bubble rate is higher than if CO2 were run constantly. If there is ever a malfunction of the controller or the probe, the solenoid sticks open, or if the alkalinity of the tank goes up, the system may very well blast the tank with CO2 and kill all the fish. That shouldn't happen on a manual system with a good needle valve.

helgymatt

I think many don't use controllers because they are not necessary and its just another cost. I don't find much change in CO2 concentration after a pruning, at least a noticable one. I find the manual way to work fine and very simple. Once I set the bubble count, i will normally just leave it until the tank is empty.

SpeedEuphoria

Ray for some reason I think you feel the need to try and promote PH controllers with all your threads, while the wording may vary. Not so sure what it's all about? To me it seems that its less about what is best for aquariums and more about how you think your way is better.

There are many ways to skin a cat so to speak, people like different brands of equipment for various reasons, same with religious beliefs and many other things. Trying sway people is futile IMO especially w/o any proof.

If you really want to sway people to using PH controllers, then setup 2 identical tanks and post the results using different methods.

Many people who used PH controllers for years are the ones now who say they are not needed.

To answer the question, "What is the right “bubbles per minute” to set your pressurize CO2 system at?"

Well pretty much everyone know that's a variable, meaning it varies from tank to tank depending on many things. So you start slow and watch things, then raise a little at a time and continue watching. Then you get "your" answer for your setup.

I do have a question for you Ray, do you have the CO2 on a timer so it turns off at night?

Indignation

That sounds suspiciously like science.
Ray- Sure sounds like you were saying it was right for everyone. If not, I would imagine it would read more like Call me crazy.

I have several tanks, all with happy fish and plants, all with breeding inhabitants. My 5.5 gallon shrimp tank is overflowing with RCS babies and my amanos regularly breed. (not successfully, as its freshwater.) In my larger tanks, I have had CPD's and Boraras Brigittae successfully breed.

I don't know if you think we're routinely scooping dead fish out of our poisonous CO2-laden death-traps, but i can assure you that's not the case, at least at my house. My fish are happy, my plants literally grow out of the tanks by the handfuls, I keep algae at bay. What else would I want?

Manwithnofish

I thought there was a "rule of thumb" on this. It seems everyone told me to set my CO2 between 2-3 bubbles per second. I guess I just never thought about it. So, when it's clear that size matters, why do folks tell me how many bps I should use. I think I first saw this on Rex's site...but maybe not.

Footnote: I only ran my CO2 for three weeks and shut it all down....so I never really ran it long enough to get much experience with it.

helgymatt

They were maybe making a recommendation based on you're tank size. All tanks will require different amounts, bubbles per second, or whatever you want to call it.