jseyfert3

Okay, so my first tank was a 10 gallon tank I got from a friend, probably 4-5 years ago now. My upgrade was a 20 gallon long, and I had a few fish in it ever since then. I bought some Java fern, followed by two clown loaches to get rid of the snails the plants brought with them. I also bought two groumies...the one clown loach died, and one of the groumies dies by tormenting from the other groumie. So for a while my tank has had just a groumie, a clown loach, a piece of driftwood, and some Java Fern.

The Jave Fern was actually doing pretty good. No CO2, no ferts, just a twin bulb T12 two foot shop light over the tank hung by a 2x4 that sat on the edge of the tank. Not pretty, but it was cheap and it worked, 2W/gal. But then things got bad, I didn't do regular maintenance, and a couple times you could barely see in the front do to algae growth on the front glass before I did a cleaning. During the worst period of non-maintenance most of the Java Fern died, and now I have only two small plants that aren't doing very good anymore. I believe my water is still way off, but I'll have to do another PWC tomorrow and wait for my new test kit to come.

Well, recently, my girlfriend wanted more fish. So we went to Petsmart, and ended up with 4 Cardinal Tetras, 2 Hachet Tetras, and some plant attached to a Lava Rock cause I wanted another, and it was on sale, and one of the few, true plants they have. When I was young, before I kept fish, but my sister did, I remember a display they had for plants, with some bright overhead lights to keep the plants alive. Apparently that was too much work, cause they took that down, and now they usually have only one true aquatic plant, stuffed in a fish tank with no lighting, and have a display of "aquatic plants" sold in disposable plastic aquariums...yeah, right, like those are real aquatic plants. But I'm off track. So we got the fish, and stuck my Groumie in this tiny 1 gallon tank (I know, horrible!). Well, as soon is he is in there, we (my girlfriend and I), said what are we thinking, he can't go in there. So back to Petsmart, and another 20 gallon tank, another undergravel filter, and some gravel. I ordered another 100W Fluval E-Series heater, as my other one has worked great for over two years now.

So that's were I stand. The Groumie will get out of his "cage" and go into the empty tank tonight as soon as I get home and the water can heat up.

Now I want to get some plants. And this is why I'm here, now. I preferably want plants for both tanks. The established tank I don't want to disturb at this point, only add plants too it, so what's good for a undergravel filter tank? Because of the water circulation from the undergravel filter (is there an abbreviation for that?), I did some searching and found this, Seachem Flourish Excel. Will this work for a tank with a undergravel filter? Other advice? The tank has pea sized rounded gravel, a moderate chunk of driftwood, six fish, two not-so-well Java Ferns and a plant I can't remember the name of. Lighting is two 24" T12 bulbs, one a GE daylight bulb, and a GE Plant & Aquarium bulb.

Now, the second tank is where I need your advice the most. It's empty, besides an undergravel filter, 25 lbs of small, non-rounded aquarium rock, and (tonight, until I decide what to do) a 100W heater and one, 3" Groumie. No light, no lid (I'm a DIY guy and will have a piece of glass cut for me at the hardware store), no plants. Before I get further, I need (and please err on the cheap side, I will spend money if I have too, but I need new tires for my motorcycle in the next couple months . I am also more of a DIY guy if that saves money and works the same.):

• Filter: Stay with undergravel, or remove and get something else?
• Substrate: Ties with first item, I don't assume I would change it unless I get rid of the undergravel filter?
• Lighting: I was thinking DIY CFL, unless other is preferred. Bulb choices?
• Plants: What sort of plants are easy to start with (besides Java Fern, which I proved is easy to take care of)and fit vertically into a 20g long?
• Ferts?
• Anything else?

Once I get at least one of these setup, and plants growing good, I'd like to start planning and slowly buying towards a 55g planted tank. For this I imagine a DIY sump-style filter, with the heater there, a DIY overflow style water return, and possibly a fully automatic CO2 system, which is another reason to keep the 20g tanks relatively cheap. I'd like to go bigger, but I have concerns (possibly misplaced) that much bigger then a 55g tank and it may end up in the apartment below me.

Sorry if it's a little long, any advise is appreciated as I get back into this hobby. If requested, pics will be provided of my pitiful tanks as they stand, and the progress as I work to making them better!

Diana K

Have a good read through the El Natural forum, especially the stickies at the top.

I have heard of undergravel filters (UGF) working with plants, but it did not work when I did it.

I would suggest the Aquaclear product line of filters, and a plant-specific type of substrate if you want plants that root in the substrate. There are many options here, but one of the least expensive (especially if your goal is a larger tank) is a product originally made for baseball diamonds. Turface is the name of one of these. It is available through John Deere, a company that provides a wide range of material to landscapers and many other fields. A single 50 pound bag will be enough to 'scape all 3 tanks (10, 20 long and 55 gallons)

Lighting: CFL work just fine for small planted tanks (such as you have at the moment). Over a 20 long, I would use 2 drop lights or a long fixture so the lights are spread out as equally as possible. Tanks with a smaller surface area (10 gallon or standard 20) might be OK with a single drop light, if the bulb is high enough watts. 2 fixtures allows you the option of more than one type of bulb, though. Minimum 2 watts per gallon. I am not sure this option would work with a 55, though. These tanks are pretty tall, and would probably be better with T-8 at least, or even T-5 lighting with a good reflector.

Gouramis can be quite aggressive. Only one per tank, even when you get a larger tank.
Clown Loaches can outgrow even your goal of a 55 gallon tank. I would return him, and look into smaller Loaches such as Zebra Loaches (Botia striata) for your 20. Even these are too big for a 10 gallon, though.

Plants for low light, and stay small enough for a 20 long:
There are several species of Cryptocoryne that could work well in this tank.
Some of the smaller Anubias (Petite, Nana) are good, and these do not root in the substrate, so you could keep the UGF running, if that is your choice.

You could grow plants in pots. Clay pots work well, or the basket-like pots that many plants are sold in will work. I have recently heard of (but not tried it) planting the plants in the compressed peat moss that is sold for starting seeds, then putting that peat-pot in a basket or clay pot. A 20 long is not very high, though. When you already have a UGF the pot would sit on top of that, so would be pretty high up in the tank.

Left C

What motorcycle do you have? I hope that it doesn't have tires only made specifically for your bike. My Valkyrie Tourer was like thats.

jseyfert3

Nope, I most definitely not. I need 120/70 front and 180/55 rear, Z rated, 15 inch tires. Currently running Michelin Pilot Road 2's, 6k miles or so on them so far. This is it, just snapped it this one with my cell phone when you asked:


Not my favorite pic, this is:

Left C

Nice bike!!!! I'm sure that Givi trunk has been very handy.

jseyfert3

I will definably give that forum a read.

I looked Turface up, it seems it comes in a number of different forms. Which type do you suggest, and can it be used by itself?

CFL's a cheap, but so are T12 lights. What about a dual-bulb 36" T12 "shop" light with reflector? The length is perfect for a 20 gallon long, and each bulb is 30W, so 3 WPG. But I'll probably just end up with CFL's...cheaper.

Thanks! And indeed it has! I hated having to wear a backpack, although I did, being a full-time college student. To school and back, and work and back, both 5x per week. I got the Givi a few weeks ago, and LOVE it. Plop the backpack inside and away I go. Then once I get there I use it to hold my jacket and pants so I don't have to carry them around with me.

Left C

Motorcycle luggage is great to have. My Valkyrie Tourer has some really nice hard saddle bags. The top flips up on them.





This is me on my Valkyrie Tourer getting ready to head into the Boot Hill Saloon at Daytona Beach. That's Boot Hill in the background. It rained just about all the way down and I have on my rain suit.

The other picture is a place on the Blue Ridge Parkway overlooking Rough Butt Bald. I really liked that sign and I had to get my picture taken with it.

Sorry. I got offtrack from your question.

jseyfert3

Nice bike! No worries about the sidetrack, motorcycle related sidetracts are always fine with me.

Besides, I'm been communicating extensively with Marauder both on my thread I started on my motorcycle forum and through PM's, and he's given me a bit of good advise.

So far, I believe I'll:

• Get a $90 twin bulb T5 HO light instead of the CLF's.
• Make a DIY canister filter using filter floss, PVC, and a $30 general purpose aquarium pump.
• DIY CO2 until I have the money to get a pressurized system.
• Get a CO2 drop checker to keep an eye on the CO2 levels.
• Ferts from greenleafaquariums.com, instead of buying expensive stuff like Seachem.
• Try and see how it works, ask questions as necessary, and keep interesting parties up-to-date.

I'm excited to get this rolling!

Left C

A single T5HO bulb should be plenty for a 20 long. Two bulbs would be overkill. Maybe a single T5NO may be enough. Check out Hoppy's lighting sticky.

T5 bulbs come in 24" and 30" for your aquarium. There is a bigger selection of 24" bulbs, but there are a few plant bulbs that are 30". I would like a 36" bulb on a 30" aquarium, but you might.

You may want to consider purchasing the canister filter that you plan to use on your larger aquarium and throttle it back some.

DIY yeast CO2 sux. I hate it. Many of us are building our own regulator for pressurized CO2 use.

If it was me, I would not get a 55g. Its 13" front to back measurement makes aquascaping a bit hard. You may want to purchase an aquarium that is 18" from front to back. The ones with a 36"x18" include 40 breeder, 50g, 57g and 65g. Aquariums with a 48"x18" footprint included the 75g and 90g.

Also, "When in doubt, gas it!"

jseyfert3

48W is too much? Here it is, the 30" freshwater one. Because it's 24W bulbs I'm going to assume they are 24" bulbs in a 30" fixture.

The DIY canister filter would remain on this tank permanently, I'd build a bigger one for my planned future tank (still a few months off), or buy one at that point. Something like this, but probably no bio-filter.

DIY CO2 was just till I have the money for a pressurized system. BTW, how do you build your own regulator? You can get one off eBay with a needle valve output, dual gauges, and a solenoid for only $65.

As for the 55 gallon, today I was at Petsmart, and actually looked at a 55 gallon for the first time, and my first thought was "This is way to skinny." (front to back).

I'd like bigger, like a 75 gallon tank, but I'm not too sure how much weight I can concentrate in one spot. I'm in a second floor apartment in a three story apartment complex. Any ideas on what I should stop at, weight wise? Or should I see if a first floor apartment is available?