[Wet Thumb Forum]-Ready to rip them all out...

[Sprout]

Thanks for your replies guys, I feel a little better already.

b3dlam... I do have a H.O.T. on the tank. I have it turned down fairly low so it doesn't disturb the surface too much. Not to the lowest setting though as that seems to encourage cyano when I have it on real low. The filter is at one end of the tank and it doesn't even ripple at the other end, where the CO2 diffusers are and incidentally, where the cyano shows up.

I would love to get the pH down to 7.0!! Don't worry about me using those pH adjusters... I'm scared of them!!
And yes, I do re-dose everything after the waterchange... I just didn't last time out of frustration and the fact that the plants seemed happier without 'em. But I'm gonna get back to a regular dosing schedule now.

So I think this is what I'm gonna do... start following the Flourish directions exactly... since it seems I've been overdosing. Next I'm going to start adding Excel. I think I will start dosing the KNO3 everyday as well. Sound good so far?

As to removing the CO2 things totally, eeee I'm kinda leery about doing that! You don't think my plants will go into shock or something if I totally remove 'em? Can I use both? Or is that overkill? What about the fish?

I'm definitely thinking about the bleach bath thing... but I'm worried about effects on the fish. Did you have anything bad happen JP? Did you soak the plants in dechlorinator after and for how long if you did? Did any plants die from this treatment? How do you know how long do do it for?

Yeah, I'm totally not looking for insane growth or anything... I just want the plants to be healthy and the algae to go away. Not too much to ask!!!!If that happens I will be soooo happy!

Sprout

[Sprout]

Thanks JP, I really appreciate all your help!

Ok then... tomorrow is THE day!! Gonna bleach bath my anubias, java fern, sword and vallisneria. I'd like to do the ludwigia and wallichi but I think they may be too delicate for that kind of treatment... Oh yeah, didja do any red plants? I don't know why I think they would react any different... My alternanthera is coveredin green hair or green beard (not sure which, it's just green and thick) but I'm chicken**** about bleaching it... Maybe 'cuz I like it so much.

Yeah, definitely nitrates are too low... no matter how often I've dosed I get a zero or very close to a zero. and that's with 3 different testers, Jungle Dipstick, AP and Hagen. I've never let the test sit longer than the instructions say to though... doesn't that defeat the purpose of the test?

What you said about CO2 levels jumping all over the place not helping the plants any but encouraging algae growth makes a lot of sense... hmmm.... will prolly end up pulling out the CO2 jobbies then. Wish me luck!!

Sprout

[jpmtotoro]

if you want to dose KNO3 regularly, keep an eye on it. you may be dosing too much or too little, don't add more in if you have nitrates over 10ppm, let the plants (or algae) suck it up. as for the bleach bath, it's supposed to be 19 parts water, one part bleach. in my world that's a whoosh of water and a plop of bleach i took out the large plants (some crypts, anubias, wisteria i think, some plants that were large and healthy, but getting attacked hard) and i held them upside down in the solution by the roots (just soaking the leaves) after that, i chucked the plant into a bucket filled with tap water and a ton of dechlor. someone said it might help, i wasn't gonna argue at this point. so one by one i dipped the plants for about a minute flat, not too much more or less. after doing a dozen or so, i rinsed them off, and stuck them back in the tank, simple as that. the algae turned sorta white-ish and was much easier to rub off. i got lazy and left it, and my 4 little SAEs started going after it. i was sorta scared they would be ingesting bleach, BUT they all lived, AND i had just gotten them mail order the day before, so they weren't long-standing healthy guys to start with, so i'm assuming that the algae they ate wasn't too toxic since absolutely nothing died in my tank. actually the SAEs cleaned off all the algae in 2 days flat, and all i'm left with is the hard green algae that grows on the glass, and i'm not really fighting that right now because i'm lazy, everything else is ok. all plants and fish did fine with the quick bleach bath. people normally do it for 2 minutes i think, but i opted for one since i was a bit scared, but it still had satisfactory results in my opinion so that may be a good place for you to start. as for your CO2... personally i'd take them off, i don't think it's really helping if the CO2 is jumping up and down. most of the guys here don't have ideal growing conditions, just GOOD conditions and consistent stuff in the tank. lighting doesn't change, CO2 levels don't change, ferts don't fluctuate wildly. i think the algae responds faster to the fluctuations than the plants, so i would get them under control. i don't use any CO2, my PH is about 7.5ish, just dosing ferts and excel regularly and i'm happy for now. the only thing is that hard green spot algae, but i think that is farily normal, but i'm still gonna go after it in a little while. i'm still letting my plants recouperate. the dosing directions for the flourish stuff is for non-high-tech tanks. obviously if you are running CO2 and high lights, you're gonna need more, so instead of messing with the ferts amount, i left light at 2wpg PC and excel, no CO2. i think the higher light and higher CO2 you have in your tank, the faster the plants are going to use ferts and you'll need a more delicate balance to keep things in check, whereas slower growing tanks are supposed to react slower to fluctuations, so i have been able to get a handle on stuff again. from here i will add real CO2 in the future, and then probably some more light, but in the mean time i'm fine if my anubias only grow one leaf every week or two, and my amazon swords do one a week. fine by me as long as everything isn't covered in thick algae actually if you have blue green algae... you might have nitrate deficiency, not an excess... keep an eye on the doses and stuff. i'm using the flourish nitrogen since i'm lazy. actually it's supposed to be a bit better, but that may be marketing jargon. it is part nitrates (negatively charged) and some long name compound that contains nitrogen and is positively charged. the thought is that the plants don't need to expend as much energy gathering some neg and some pos molecules for nitrogen... BUT as most people tell you, dosing nitrates works fine for them so even if the nitrogen stuff is better, it's probably not necessary anyway, ya i think you have a good idea of what to do, but until you can get real CO2 in there, i would revert it back to a not-so-high-tech tank and get your plants squared away. believe me on the patience thing, watching it every day didn't do anything but drive me nuts try to provide good conditions and let nature take care of itself. good luck, feel free to post any more questions.

[b3dlam]

Sprout,

Don't despair!!! 'Everyone' goes through the algae growing stage at one point or another...


I am assuming the kH you mentioned is in ppm, which translates to about 5 dKH. At this level, you should try to get the pH down to about 7.0 (using only CO2 - NOT pH down powders).

With regards to the Nitrate dosing, you really need to add more. Check out http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua/articles.htm for dosing amounts. When you do the nitrate test, if the readings indicate 0ppm, add a minute amount of KNO3 to the test cylinder and see if it will change. This will give you an idea whether the test kit is still working.

I think the lack of nitrate is you main problem at the moment. The CO2 supply is also of concern, but we can look at resolving that a bit later.

Are you aerating the water at all? Any splashing or turbulent water movement in the tank?

hth...

[jpmtotoro]

my crypts are sorta red... i guess i don't think you need to worry too much. the other thing is that the algae bath didn't totally kill off the algae, after 2 days i noticed some new growth, BUT by day 2 my SAEs were going hog wild eating the stuff. your SAEs may be eating the stuff that they should be, but the algae may be growing faster. the bleach bath may stunt the growth of the algae (did in my case at least) so it allowed my little cleaning crew to help clean up. actually i failed to mention that at the same time i got 10 amano shrimp so my crew was those guys, 4 SAEs and 6 otocinclus. i'm not sure what sort of a role the 10 shrimp played. probably marginal. at the time i also had no snails. you could think about getting some malaysian trumpet snails, then when they get out of control get a few loaches and bye-bye snails and don't worry too much, some things are going to work, and some things aren't, the important thing is that you give stuff about a week before you start to see results. after you remove the CO2 things, bleach bath the algae... i'd do a big fat water change and consider it a brand new start to get things right for a week or two, see how that works. do you have a picture of your weed bed? maybe i could see how bad you are compared to mine. mine was pretty nasty, maybe i can offer some other suggestions if i know just how bad you have it. another thing i just thought of... do you have decent water circulation or is it pretty stagnant? circulation may help, BUT it's just a thought, i really have no clue. i got a canister filter during my algae tear down so i think that helped. no more surface agitation, but good circulation. good luck tomorrow!

[jpmtotoro]

no prob b3dlam, actually running the excel hasn't been too bad for me. obviously CO2 would be better, but i'm not having too many issues, BUT the key is the lighting. i've got a bit over 2 wpg PC and i think he's got about 2.5ish i think, i bet if you got around 3wpg or more the excel would just plain suck, but at around 2wpg i've gotten normal growth and algae isn't too bad at all. i just want to make sure that people know that in lower light tanks, adding excel instead of CO2 (at least for a little while, i've been doing it for a month maybe in my 50) isn't a terrible thing. plus he'll get pressurized soon (me too i hope). better that we give him a few options anyway, much better than nothing!

hey sprout, did ya try the bleach bath? if so, tell me how it went. mine went fine, but if yours didn't go so well i'd like to know so i don't recommend it so early next time

[Sprout]

Thanks ekim, I'll be heading out to the hydroponics stores tomorrow then! Uh... one more question please!! I think I read that you have to dose potassium sulfate dry 'cuz you can't make a very strong solution with it. How much of the powder should I be adding then?
Sprout

[anonapersona]

If you have high pH water (you mentioned 8.0 to 8.2 starting, just like mine) you really need the CO2. With 3 Hagen systems going it should be easy for you to renew one each week and keep the input quite steady.

You can substitute ale yeast for the 1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon of "activator" and 1 teaspoon baking soda and 1/4 teaspoon yeast nutrient for the "stablizer" -- I suggest counting bubbles a day or two after renewal and when a system falls to 50% fo that rate, change it out. Find a home brewing store and you cna get the ale yeast for about a buck and the yeast nutrient for about the same.

If you chose to do Excell at the same time as CO2, be careful to not overdose.

[Sprout]

JP... no... not yet... I scared to!! Just working up the courage now... I'm off tomorrow so I can be up late.

Sprout... who should be referred to as a SHE!

[b3dlam]

whoops................