ruben

Is it possible to use NH4 instead of NO3? I´ve been using a mixture similar to yours (i was low on PO4) but Amonnium sulphate instead of nitrates, NH3 is 0.2 - 0.5 ppm, fish don't seem to matter, plant growth is very good, some minor problems with green algae.

Edward

Hi ruben,

here is the answer

Andrey

I went through this post several times.
I could not find any "target" here.
Edward, could you please post the target figures, which I could treat as a "Good" ones?
I would like to know the level of:
NO3
PO4
Ca
Mg
CO2
and maybe KH together with GH

otherwise it is difficult to understand where the good dosing is, at least to me.

Thank you in advance,
Andrey

discus

Hi Andrey

Sorry for the delay in answering and I know I'm not Edward but ill take a crack at this.

NO3---- 10 to 20
PO4---- 0.5 to 1.0
Ca----- 20 to 30
Mg----- 1 to 5
CO2---- 20 to 30

Your KH is dependant on your CO2 levels and pH and your GH is a function of your Ca and Mg. You may want to take a look at the articles posted in the following link they help in explaining many of your questions and provide graphs also.


http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...ead.php?t=4241

the links to the articles are in blue

And ask questions


Thanks
Discus

bharada

Edward,
Your method definitely piques my interest as the thought of 50% weekly water changes on my 125g tank really does not appeal to my sensible side. But I'm not quite sure I understand your dosing measurements.

You state that the solutions provide rated ppm levels at 3 ml /100 l, yet for a 130g (492 l), 3wpg tank you recommend only 6 ml which is less than half the rated dosage. This in a growing condition where I would expect the need to supply additional nutrients to the tank. Can you please clarify the reasoning behind this?

Finally, when you do your monthly testing are you looking for a specific ppm reading for NO3 and PO4 or just a 3:1 ratio?

Thanks.

Edward

Tom,
you want me to try non CO2 tank at 4Wg Watts per gallon?
Ludwigia Inclinata and Rotala Macrandra says why?

Edward

Edward

This system is almost as simple as feeding fish. I am not good at explaining things.

This is for reference only, so we know what to expect. This tells us the ratios and concentration. No blind dosing.

The dosage quantity ml depends on the last NO3 and PO4 test. Dose every day very small quantity. On the end of the first week test water in the tank for NO3 and PO4. If too high, lower the daily dose. If not enough, increase the daily dose.
This will get stabilized and create predictable condition in 2-3 weeks.

Looking for both, NO3 and PO4 ppm levels and also for NO3:PO4 ratio. You don't want 3:1 ratio in the water column.
To maintain stable water column ratio NO3:PO4 of 10:1, you need to use dosing ratio of 3:1 because plants take the PO4 faster then NO3.

What you want is to have measurable NO3 and PO4. By dosing every day you never run out of nutrients.


Practical example of 130g at 3Wg Watts per gallon. Solutions to dose:
01.day - Standard 6ml, Ca 6ml, Mg 6ml
02.day - Standard 6ml, Ca 6ml, Mg 6ml
03.day - Standard 6ml, Ca 6ml, Mg 6ml
04.day - Standard 6ml, Ca 6ml, Mg 6ml
05.day - Standard 6ml, Ca 6ml, Mg 6ml
06.day - Standard 6ml, Ca 6ml, Mg 6ml
07.day - Test for NO3 = 25 ppm, PO4 = 1 ppm, (change the dose from 6ml to 2ml)
08.day - Standard 2ml, Ca 2ml, Mg 2ml
09.day - Standard 2ml, Ca 2ml, Mg 2ml
10.day - Standard 2ml, Ca 2ml, Mg 2ml
11.day - Standard 2ml, Ca 2ml, Mg 2ml
12.day - Standard 2ml, Ca 2ml, Mg 2ml
13.day - Standard 2ml, Ca 2ml, Mg 2ml
14.day - Test for NO3 = 10 ppm, PO4 = 1 ppm, (change the dose from 2ml to 4ml)
15.day - Standard 4ml, Ca 4ml, Mg 4ml
16.day - Standard 4ml, Ca 4ml, Mg 4ml
17.day - Standard 4ml, Ca 4ml, Mg 4ml
18.day - Standard 4ml, Ca 4ml, Mg 4ml
19.day - Standard 4ml, Ca 4ml, Mg 4ml
20.day - Standard 4ml, Ca 4ml, Mg 4ml
21.day - Test for NO3 = 10 ppm, PO4 = 1 ppm, (change not needed)
22.day - Standard 4ml, Ca 4ml, Mg 4ml
23...

Thank you for your questions,
Edward

bharada

Thanks, Edward. Between this and your previous explanation in a photo thread I think I understand now.

Jeff Kropp

How do you explain your accrual of a 25/1 N/P ratio while dosing a 3/1 ratio solution?

How do you explain no change in tested PO4ppm with 3 different volumes of daily standard solution?

Is your return to estimative index target numbers in this last post just coincidental?

What are your feeding and water change habits?
___
Jeff

Edward

Dosing once NO3:PO4 10:1 gives approximately 10:1 ratio in the tank on the end of the 10th day. But, dosing 10 days 1:0.1 gives usually 5:0 ratio after 10 days. The dosing ratio is not the same with daily dosage program as with the over fertilize and flush program.
The first week NO3 and PO4 raised as 6ml was too much of a dose for the plants to handle. Values elevated to 25 ppm and 1 ppm. The dose was changed from 6 ml to 2 ml to regulate/slow nutrient levels. Lower K slowed PO4 uptake and also accumulated PO4 in plant mass from previous week did not require more PO4 to be taken. This is why PO4 level remains unchanged. Following week NO3 was down to 10 ppm and falling. To regulate levels, dosage was changed from 2 ml to 4 ml. From this point the higher K pushed plants for more PO4 uptake. Levels are now at desired values, exactly where we want them to be.
Every start of a regulated closed loop comes with swings ups and downs.

NO3 uptake remains at slow continuous rate, but PO4 is taken fast and used later by plants. In reality, even with dosing ratio of 3:1 the water column is at 10:0.1. Plants take more PO4 then they need and use it later. Running PO4 0 ppm in water column is not bad as long as some PO4 is being dosed daily.
The NO3 and PO4 levels depend on test kit ability. We need to distinguish between None / Some / Excessive. For my test kits, it's 5-10 NO3 and 0.25 PO4. Red colour ratio and personal preference is an option too. This is an open system allowing any levels. See the NO3-FREE and PO4-FREE solutions. These can be used to correct ratio errors without water changes or to fine tune the water column as desired.
We have some tanks with no fish and some with light fish load. Not using tap water, RO only. Testing is being done continuously on all tanks for 10 years. No water changes done for months, many months. The fish, plants and I hate water changes.

Thank you Jeff,
Edward