Laith

Not necessarily and this is the problem with the chart. The chart relies on KH being made up mainly of either carbonates or bicarbonates (I don't remember which one offhand). There are tap waters where the make up of the KH is such that it makes the chart invalid.

Edward

Hi Zapins
The CO2 deficiency was due to the design of the CO2 Controller, because it is based on pH instead of the real CO2 concentration. I think simple needle valve would do the job more reliably.

There is nothing wrong with KH of 1 or 2 degrees except that it is difficult to maintain at stable level for long. And I noticed some sensitive plants need more light to grow as nicely at higher KH and some don’t grow at all.


Thank you
Edward

dstephens

Guys, I have a situation that fits into this discussion somewhere. I have a 90 gallon planted tank that has approx. 4.2 watts per gallon, injected CO2 and I have been using a Milwaukie PH monitor to control the CO2. The KH runs around 4 most of the time. My PH has been running around 6.2 - 6.4 for weeks. In other words, because every time the CO2 runs, it blows the PH down quickly and the controller shuts off at 6.2. The plant growth has been minimal and I don't see any pearling at all. After reading this thread I decided to turn the bubbles up, lower the PH threshold and monitor the situation to make sure I don't nuke my fish. So far, I have managed it downward to a PH of 5.8 before the fish start moving towards the surface. Now the PH is hovering around 5.8 - 5.9. At a KH of 4, that would put the
CO2 measurement through the roof using the KH/PH CO2 Chart. I still don't see any pearling on the plants. I also dose flourish excel and other seachem ferts for macros and micros. The palnts look great and I know they are growing but I'm not seeing the kind of growth or pearling that I have seen in the past using injected CO2. Also, will my fish eventually adjust to the lower PH? Any suggestions? Thanks for letting me jump in here. Darrell

Edward

Hi Robert,
Where are the most beautiful planted aquariums? From Thailand, Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia to Japan. Why? One of the reasons is they enjoy very low KH and GH of 0 to 1 degree.

Looks like no one is really sure.

Yes I have snails. KH and Ca are not related. You can have zero KH and 15 ppm Ca (2 degrees GH) and still have nice snails. Or if you like, zero KH and 30 ppm Ca (4 degrees GH).


Thank you
Edward

Edward

That makes 190 ppm CO2. You are killing your fish. Please note that we are discussing zero KH conditions, not 4 KH. Lower the CO2 ASAP.

If they are not high pH fish then yes they will adjust. But they will not adjust to CO2 over 30 ppm.

The reason why your plants are not pearling is possibly too many hours of light a day or some nutrient deficiency. And plants don’t need to pearl to grow well.


Thank you
Edward

dstephens

I just recalibrated my PH monitor and the probe was off by .5! I checked the PH with a test kit and it is approximately 6.4, so, a little better than 5.9. I will back off the CO2 and check the other parameters to see if there is a deficiency of some kind. Thank you for the quick response. I turned the air diffuser on and that should help the fish recover. Darrell

Avalon

Hi Darrell. I've got a small tank with water param's close to yours. I found that dumping in CO2 doesn't help, and you certainly can't keep fish (my tank only has 1 lone oto cat). There's a certain range, within roughly 0.2-0.4 ph that you can work in without having algae issues. The success with such casual measurements lies within the lighting. Use less (duration or intensity), and you will lessen the need for CO2, although I have found that less intensity works better. My plants don't pearl at all under 6.5 wpg, but I'm growing Tonina belem and manaus like a champ.

I'm very interested in this low-to-no KH thing. I usually get a 2-4 dKH reading from mixing RO with tap, but I've never really checked after the drop from the Florabase substrate. I assume it will drop the KH 2-3 degrees. But it appears that the longer I go without a w/c, the better my plants look. My little oto doesn't seem to mind, but when the CO2 was high he sure did. I cut the amount of CO2 in half and he seems fine now, and my plants are still growing well (except for my L. pantanal with broad leaves, but it still grows like it was supposed to have them).

I set up my little 10g tank (I usually keep large ones) to experiment with. Right now it's for soft water, since I have liquid rock flowing from my tap. You can grow many a plant in very hard water, but it can be very difficult, particularly with large aquariums (75g and over). If you want high light, you need tons of CO2, which can harm fish. Low light works much better. My next (continuing) experiment in my little tank will be the PPS. If I can figure out how to keep higher light, soft water plants, and not have to change RO water in a larger tank very often, I will have entered planted tank nirvana!

dstephens

This has been an interesting ride for me and part of the problem is that I am not thinking things through enough. My tank looked so good for so long that I took it for granted that things would stay that way. Felt like I could grow anything and wow, have I had some disasters. I have a 90 gallon planted and I started it 7 months ago. Lot's of fast growing stems, CO2 was jamming away, PH consistent around 6.7 -6.9, not much algae problems. Then I decided to pull stuff out and start trying difficult plants without giving a lot of consideration to the parameters that work best for a specific plant, or grouping of plants, spent too much money buying plants.......

Anyway, I learned a great deal from folks like yourself on the APC forums. I really like the look of my tank now but I have been trying to force this CO2 issue. I have a large area newly planted with HC and I'm trying to bump the CO2 to enhance whatever chances I have of getting the HC to take hold and take off. I currently run my lights about 11-12 hours a day. I have 390 watts of PC 6700k lights over 90 gallons. Injected CO2. In the past I have run the air diffuser at night to hedge against any issues with the fish. I have always had a pearling effect, up until now, and that makes me think that my growth has diminished and I have green dust/brown crusty algae on the glass. I also dose excel, nitrogen, potassium, flourish, phosporus, iron and trace elements. I keep the temp around 76-78.5. PH 6.5 - 6.8. recently, the PH has been creeping downward. I change 20 gallons or so every week. I probably have 70 nominal gallons considering all of the substrate, which is flourite. KH of 3.5 - 4.5. I don't check the others very often, usually going on the visual to see how things are going. I also have a UV sterilizer in-line. Anyway, that's the ticket.

I don't see or really have any major issues. I would just like to grow my plants to their optimal capacity. I am really sorry if it seems like I have highjacked somone else's thread. I should be calling Dr. Phil maybe instead of all this blabber. Always open to feedback/suggestions. Thanks for letting me share. Darrell

Robert Arnold

I have some HC in some flourite which is starting to really take. Actually, everything in that tank is doing well. The tank had half new and half 4 year old flourite which I gravel vaccumed pretty well before starting this new 65 gallon. The thing is, I could never get the HC to take in another 90G tank with Eco complete and top dressed gravel. Pretty much same water with a 4x54 watt Tek light on the 90G. The HC is growing with a 4x39 watt Current Nova T5 on the new 65 gallon. So its not just the wattage, though everyone thinks HC needs tons of light. I don't think its the light, but rather a rich substrate and stable/ mature water. I don't even dose this tank that much letting the fish and excess food take care of most of the NO3 and PO4. The water is around KH 5 and GH of 6-7 with pH of 6.5. I only dose K and traces and not too much of traces. I also dose calcium chloride and mg as the well water is near RO. It is not too heavily stocked either.

banderbe

That's interesting, I bubble 180 bubbles / min into my little 29 gallon tank. No leaks either as I just use a limewood airstone and can pull the tubing and see the bubbles coming out of the tube into the water. Even when I was using a reactor I had to push that much CO2 in order to get the one point ph drop.