How to balance NPK, Ca, Mg and micros - new experiments - Page 5 - Fertilizing

aquamaniac · 01-17-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kekon

These were Micranthemum umbrosum, alternatera reineckii and Rotala Indica. The pictures attached show how the plants looked like under EI fertilization. At a rough guess one might say it was Ca deficiency but it wasn't. GH was 4..5. Raising Ca only up to 45 ppm didn't help. The plants began to grow healthy when the following things were changed:

1. NO3 decreased to max. 5 ppm
2. K raised from 10 to 20 ppm
3. Mg raised from 5 to 10 ppm

The most important thing is 1. When only 2. and 3. were done - nothing happened. So it was NO3 excess. NO ONE BUT NO ONE was able to tell me precisely why the plants in the pictures looked so horribly under EI. I was told over and over again that the cause was too low CO2 but believe me - i had high CO2: KH = 3, pH = 6.0 and some of fish were suffocating from lack of oxygen ! It was a clear sign that there was plenty of CO2 but it didn't help any of the plants i've mentioned to grow norlmally. The breakthrough occured only after lowering NO3. In harder water i was able to grow affected plants with lesser problems so it seems to me there is a link between water hardness and allowable NO3 levels. On the other hand i noticed rosette plants (and some stem plants) are not sensitive to NO3-GH ratios/levels. Also, i know some people are able to grow the species i've described here in low GH and high NO3 - but i can't understand how this happens. So, if one is able not to have issues with the species in the pictures i posted here in lower GH and under EI fertilization - please send me a water sample from his tank and i will take it to a laboratory and measure for K, NO3, Ca and Mg and perhaps other elements too

(this could explain to us what other elements are important against stunting)

Hi Kekon, I have the same problem and same algae on my Alternanthera. I reduced the NO3 level close to 5 mg/L. Now it looks healthier a bit, but I can get rid this green, soft algae. This is your picture what I'm talking about :
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...4&d=1186400181
My water has abut GH 4-6, KH 3. My general plant health is not the best, and I can't improve their growth.
I use soil under the gavel, maybe I shouldn't...
Can I ask you how can get rid that algae on alternanthera ?

Best regards, Aquamaniac

kekon · 01-17-2008, 10:43 PM

I always have such algae when too low doses of PO4 and NO3 are added or when NO3 is close to 0 ppm and PO4 is present at 0.5..1 ppm.
But in your case it seems it may be cause for too high iron level for example. How much micros do you add ? (you said you have rich substrate which can leak some nutrients into the water column)
The picture you saw was taken when i added too much NO3 and micros.

aquamaniac · 01-18-2008, 01:12 PM

Hi Kekon, I'll try to post some pictures about my situation. I tryed almost everything to stop this algae and to push plants to grow but with minimal result. It seems that low nitrates helps a lot. I dose 1/4 teaspoon of 7 % chelated iron and the same amount of micro: CSM+B every two days.
About macros: 0.5 mg/L NO3, 0.2 mg/L PO4, 0.5 mg/L K, 0.1 mg/L Mg every other day.

At the begining the algae look like yours, but in the meantime trasformed like you can see in the pictures. It happened once when it showed sign of weakness : I turned of the pressourized CO2 for 3 days. It seems that this algae love CO2 like plants. So I'm confused now.
No alga = no CO2 with limited species of plants and slow growth, or CO2 with algae.
In this moment I have no idea what should I do with the water parameters. I can't find the right balance between macros and micros.

Bert H · 08-09-2007, 05:47 AM

Blues boy, how hard is your water? KH and GH?

BluesBoy · 08-09-2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bert H

Blues boy, how hard is your water? KH and GH?

My kH is about 10 (190 ppm HCO3) and GH 3.4 (Ca = 20 ppm and Mg = 2.7 ppm).

Other parameters:
Na = 54 ppm, Cl = 8.9 ppm and Fe = 0.15 ppm

I have own water at the countryside. All parameters checked by laboratory.

Bert H · 08-09-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

My kH is about 10 (190 ppm HCO3) and GH 3.4 (Ca = 20 ppm and Mg = 2.7 ppm).

Thanks. The reason I asked is that I have seen the same on my A. reinickii, and I also have hard, own well water, (limerock aquifer) low on Mg. I definitely believe that those of us with hard waters, have to do things a little differently than those of us without it.

Champagnero · 08-10-2007, 10:30 AM

Hi,

i've a small Problem with those water parameters. Some of my plants are looking very pale. I've upped the Mg level like you did from 8 to 10 mg/l without success. Now i've added another 2 mg/l and the plants are still very pale. Especially the stargrass looks terrible.
Iron deficinecy is not possbile. I add really enough of it from EDTA, DTPA, HEDTA chelated iron and Gluconate Iron/trace elements.

Due to this problem i upped my Calciumlevel to 80 mg/l last week. I had a GH of 12 after that and my plants recovered from the paleness.
After two big waterchanges, due to the fact that i don't want such a high GH the pale leaves returned with the normal dosing regime. In old threads this paleness was associated to K+:Ca Ratio but why do i need alot more Ca than you Kekon? I too use only RO Water for this tank...Is NO3 affecting this relationship too? (My No3 should be less than 5 mg/l)

Could it be from still not enough K+ ?

Best Regards,
Tobi

defdac · 09-14-2007, 01:04 AM

My water params: 3.1 KH (HCO3), 3.6 dGH
2x24 watts T5 over 60 litres tank.

I've upped my light and lowered my CO2 and KNO3-dosages.

First my A. reineckii looked like this (about 20-40 ppm NO3 dosed totally each week, 4-5 bubbles/sec via loopback mist and regular reactors, >30 ppm CO2, gasping and often dead fish):
http://www.defblog.se/picture/1542.html
Then I lowered to about 20 ppm NO3 per week and 1 bubble/sec CO2, and it got alot better to this:
http://www.defblog.se/picture/1751.html
Still a bit wavy, so I lowered to 9-10 ppm KNO3-dosage per week, and now everything looks nice:
http://www.defblog.se/picture/1755.html

I'm thinking of raising NO3 to 40 ppm and see how it reacts 8 )

kekon · 01-07-2008, 01:36 PM

Hi Tobi, I occasionally have the problem you've described. Adding magnesium sometimes works sometimes doesn't. Now i'm working to solve the problem. This paleness appears often when high potassium amounts are added. It doesn't affect growth speed however but some plants look ugly. You say you added more Ca and it helped. I will try to check it. If you have hard water you can safely add more NO3 than 5 ppm (the only problem with NO3 is in soft and very soft water)

stagius24 · 01-14-2008, 11:03 PM

@kekon

I recently have many stunned tip in new leaves of amazon sword. After few week of introducing into the aquarium, they start shooting new leaves. But somehow, it is been quite long, and they haven;t do anything. Some appears wrinkle.

As you suggested: Ca = 32, Mg = 8, Na = max. 5, NO3 = 5, PO4 = 0.2..0.5, K approx. 30 ppm, Cl = 5,

I might think that my water dont have enough Ca because i didnt dose Ca and Mg. But just now, according to the water quality report, i found my tap water have Ca is 67 ppm and Mg is 20 ppm. So i think they have enough Ca and Mg for plant.

I can't think of anything else right now. I have over 65W over a 29 Gallon. With 1 2L and 1 4 L DIY CO2 and EI dosing method, I hope I achieve the balance between CO2, light, ferts .. but guess not, stunned new leaf, the tip become yellow and look transparent. Some old leaves died off ( turn yellow, with brown spot)

I am looking for everyone advice.