How to balance NPK, Ca, Mg and micros - new experiments - Page 6 - Fertilizing

Champagnero · 07-30-2007, 12:28 AM

Hi Detlef,

thanks alot for your answer.

@kekon

those tests would be be very interesting. From detlefs waterparameters you can see, that calcium and magnesium maybe are not that important. nitrogen seems to be the key for healthy grow.
i'm really looking forward to those tests.

Best Regards
Tobi

kekon · 07-30-2007, 02:36 AM

As far as i know ADA substrates may contain Ca and Mg. "Power Sand" is a composition of Si (99%), Mg, Ca, Ti, Al. Because of that Ca and Mg in the water column don't have to be precisely balanced.

rs79 · 08-03-2007, 01:10 AM

"And what will we get 3 days later ? Deformed, twisted and curled leaves on many plants"

What species of plants? This is normal as plants get used to an appropriate level of food; they don't go fro small leaves to giant ones without getting a bit twisted inbetween.

It's very common with crypts.

I'be never seen a plant that didn't thrive with EI. If you can name some I'll try them here.

kekon · 08-06-2007, 04:53 AM

Quote:

What species of plants? This is normal as plants get used to an appropriate level of food; they don't go fro small leaves to giant ones without getting a bit twisted inbetween.

These were Micranthemum umbrosum, alternatera reineckii and Rotala Indica. The pictures attached show how the plants looked like under EI fertilization. At a rough guess one might say it was Ca deficiency but it wasn't. GH was 4..5. Raising Ca only up to 45 ppm didn't help. The plants began to grow healthy when the following things were changed:

1. NO3 decreased to max. 5 ppm
2. K raised from 10 to 20 ppm
3. Mg raised from 5 to 10 ppm

The most important thing is 1. When only 2. and 3. were done - nothing happened. So it was NO3 excess. NO ONE BUT NO ONE was able to tell me precisely why the plants in the pictures looked so horribly under EI. I was told over and over again that the cause was too low CO2 but believe me - i had high CO2: KH = 3, pH = 6.0 and some of fish were suffocating from lack of oxygen ! It was a clear sign that there was plenty of CO2 but it didn't help any of the plants i've mentioned to grow norlmally. The breakthrough occured only after lowering NO3. In harder water i was able to grow affected plants with lesser problems so it seems to me there is a link between water hardness and allowable NO3 levels. On the other hand i noticed rosette plants (and some stem plants) are not sensitive to NO3-GH ratios/levels. Also, i know some people are able to grow the species i've described here in low GH and high NO3 - but i can't understand how this happens. So, if one is able not to have issues with the species in the pictures i posted here in lower GH and under EI fertilization - please send me a water sample from his tank and i will take it to a laboratory and measure for K, NO3, Ca and Mg and perhaps other elements too

(this could explain to us what other elements are important against stunting)

BluesBoy · 08-08-2007, 11:20 AM

This is how my Alternanthera looked some years ago with high NO3 and low micro:
http://www.bluesboy.se/viewimage.php?id=121

With NO3 around 5 ppm and high micro it now looks like this:
http://www.bluesboy.se/viewimage.php?id=675

Bert H · 08-09-2007, 05:47 AM

Blues boy, how hard is your water? KH and GH?

BluesBoy · 08-09-2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bert H

Blues boy, how hard is your water? KH and GH?

My kH is about 10 (190 ppm HCO3) and GH 3.4 (Ca = 20 ppm and Mg = 2.7 ppm).

Other parameters:
Na = 54 ppm, Cl = 8.9 ppm and Fe = 0.15 ppm

I have own water at the countryside. All parameters checked by laboratory.

Bert H · 08-09-2007, 09:57 AM

Quote:

My kH is about 10 (190 ppm HCO3) and GH 3.4 (Ca = 20 ppm and Mg = 2.7 ppm).

Thanks. The reason I asked is that I have seen the same on my A. reinickii, and I also have hard, own well water, (limerock aquifer) low on Mg. I definitely believe that those of us with hard waters, have to do things a little differently than those of us without it.

Champagnero · 08-10-2007, 10:30 AM

Hi,

i've a small Problem with those water parameters. Some of my plants are looking very pale. I've upped the Mg level like you did from 8 to 10 mg/l without success. Now i've added another 2 mg/l and the plants are still very pale. Especially the stargrass looks terrible.
Iron deficinecy is not possbile. I add really enough of it from EDTA, DTPA, HEDTA chelated iron and Gluconate Iron/trace elements.

Due to this problem i upped my Calciumlevel to 80 mg/l last week. I had a GH of 12 after that and my plants recovered from the paleness.
After two big waterchanges, due to the fact that i don't want such a high GH the pale leaves returned with the normal dosing regime. In old threads this paleness was associated to K+:Ca Ratio but why do i need alot more Ca than you Kekon? I too use only RO Water for this tank...Is NO3 affecting this relationship too? (My No3 should be less than 5 mg/l)

Could it be from still not enough K+ ?

Best Regards,
Tobi

defdac · 09-14-2007, 01:04 AM

My water params: 3.1 KH (HCO3), 3.6 dGH
2x24 watts T5 over 60 litres tank.

I've upped my light and lowered my CO2 and KNO3-dosages.

First my A. reineckii looked like this (about 20-40 ppm NO3 dosed totally each week, 4-5 bubbles/sec via loopback mist and regular reactors, >30 ppm CO2, gasping and often dead fish):
http://www.defblog.se/picture/1542.html
Then I lowered to about 20 ppm NO3 per week and 1 bubble/sec CO2, and it got alot better to this:
http://www.defblog.se/picture/1751.html
Still a bit wavy, so I lowered to 9-10 ppm KNO3-dosage per week, and now everything looks nice:
http://www.defblog.se/picture/1755.html

I'm thinking of raising NO3 to 40 ppm and see how it reacts 8 )