How to balance NPK, Ca, Mg and micros - new experiments - Page 7 - Fertilizing

kekon · 01-07-2008, 01:36 PM

Hi Tobi, I occasionally have the problem you've described. Adding magnesium sometimes works sometimes doesn't. Now i'm working to solve the problem. This paleness appears often when high potassium amounts are added. It doesn't affect growth speed however but some plants look ugly. You say you added more Ca and it helped. I will try to check it. If you have hard water you can safely add more NO3 than 5 ppm (the only problem with NO3 is in soft and very soft water)

stagius24 · 01-14-2008, 11:03 PM

@kekon

I recently have many stunned tip in new leaves of amazon sword. After few week of introducing into the aquarium, they start shooting new leaves. But somehow, it is been quite long, and they haven;t do anything. Some appears wrinkle.

As you suggested: Ca = 32, Mg = 8, Na = max. 5, NO3 = 5, PO4 = 0.2..0.5, K approx. 30 ppm, Cl = 5,

I might think that my water dont have enough Ca because i didnt dose Ca and Mg. But just now, according to the water quality report, i found my tap water have Ca is 67 ppm and Mg is 20 ppm. So i think they have enough Ca and Mg for plant.

I can't think of anything else right now. I have over 65W over a 29 Gallon. With 1 2L and 1 4 L DIY CO2 and EI dosing method, I hope I achieve the balance between CO2, light, ferts .. but guess not, stunned new leaf, the tip become yellow and look transparent. Some old leaves died off ( turn yellow, with brown spot)

I am looking for everyone advice.

kekon · 01-15-2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

As you suggested: Ca = 32, Mg = 8, Na = max. 5, NO3 = 5, PO4 = 0.2..0.5, K approx. 30 ppm, Cl = 5,

Do you keep these paramers in your tank now or do you use tap water with 67 ppm Ca and 20 ppm Mg ?

Quote:

Some old leaves died off ( turn yellow, with brown spot)

This may be a sign of K or manganese deficieny. If you haven't dosed enough potassium so far (less than 10 ppm a week), you shoud do it now. Wrinkled leaves can also be caused by lack of K.

stagius24 · 01-15-2008, 08:37 PM

i just use tap water for my tank. I replace water tank every week.

I am dosing with EI method, I never test my water paramenter for K and PO4 because i think i have more than enough. Maybe i was wrong, I will overdose a little bit.

aquamaniac · 01-17-2008, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kekon

These were Micranthemum umbrosum, alternatera reineckii and Rotala Indica. The pictures attached show how the plants looked like under EI fertilization. At a rough guess one might say it was Ca deficiency but it wasn't. GH was 4..5. Raising Ca only up to 45 ppm didn't help. The plants began to grow healthy when the following things were changed:

1. NO3 decreased to max. 5 ppm
2. K raised from 10 to 20 ppm
3. Mg raised from 5 to 10 ppm

The most important thing is 1. When only 2. and 3. were done - nothing happened. So it was NO3 excess. NO ONE BUT NO ONE was able to tell me precisely why the plants in the pictures looked so horribly under EI. I was told over and over again that the cause was too low CO2 but believe me - i had high CO2: KH = 3, pH = 6.0 and some of fish were suffocating from lack of oxygen ! It was a clear sign that there was plenty of CO2 but it didn't help any of the plants i've mentioned to grow norlmally. The breakthrough occured only after lowering NO3. In harder water i was able to grow affected plants with lesser problems so it seems to me there is a link between water hardness and allowable NO3 levels. On the other hand i noticed rosette plants (and some stem plants) are not sensitive to NO3-GH ratios/levels. Also, i know some people are able to grow the species i've described here in low GH and high NO3 - but i can't understand how this happens. So, if one is able not to have issues with the species in the pictures i posted here in lower GH and under EI fertilization - please send me a water sample from his tank and i will take it to a laboratory and measure for K, NO3, Ca and Mg and perhaps other elements too

(this could explain to us what other elements are important against stunting)

Hi Kekon, I have the same problem and same algae on my Alternanthera. I reduced the NO3 level close to 5 mg/L. Now it looks healthier a bit, but I can get rid this green, soft algae. This is your picture what I'm talking about :
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...4&d=1186400181
My water has abut GH 4-6, KH 3. My general plant health is not the best, and I can't improve their growth.
I use soil under the gavel, maybe I shouldn't...
Can I ask you how can get rid that algae on alternanthera ?

Best regards, Aquamaniac

kekon · 01-17-2008, 10:43 PM

I always have such algae when too low doses of PO4 and NO3 are added or when NO3 is close to 0 ppm and PO4 is present at 0.5..1 ppm.
But in your case it seems it may be cause for too high iron level for example. How much micros do you add ? (you said you have rich substrate which can leak some nutrients into the water column)
The picture you saw was taken when i added too much NO3 and micros.

aquamaniac · 01-18-2008, 01:12 PM

Hi Kekon, I'll try to post some pictures about my situation. I tryed almost everything to stop this algae and to push plants to grow but with minimal result. It seems that low nitrates helps a lot. I dose 1/4 teaspoon of 7 % chelated iron and the same amount of micro: CSM+B every two days.
About macros: 0.5 mg/L NO3, 0.2 mg/L PO4, 0.5 mg/L K, 0.1 mg/L Mg every other day.

At the begining the algae look like yours, but in the meantime trasformed like you can see in the pictures. It happened once when it showed sign of weakness : I turned of the pressourized CO2 for 3 days. It seems that this algae love CO2 like plants. So I'm confused now.
No alga = no CO2 with limited species of plants and slow growth, or CO2 with algae.
In this moment I have no idea what should I do with the water parameters. I can't find the right balance between macros and micros.

kekon · 01-19-2008, 04:14 PM

Quote:

I dose 1/4 teaspoon of 7 % chelated iron and the same amount of micro: CSM+B every two days.

From what i see this is a quite rich iron dose. If you have an iron test kit - measure how much Fe you have in your tank (i know it's not accurate but it has better accuracy than NO3 test kit) . If the test kit shows above 0.2 ppm i recommend to decrease it to max. 0.2 ppm. I was told (and experienced it painfully...) that dosing too much iron will cause algae you have in your tank. Several days ago i add 0.5 ppm of Fe in order to see how plants respond to it. The very next day after adding i noticed stopped growth and all the tank glasses covered with green dust algae. You have thread-algahe however, but i know from my experience that Fe excess causes green algae such like thread-akgae or green-dust algae.

Quote:

CSM+B every two days.

Could you write what is your tank capacity and CSM+B fertilizer content ? (i mean the percentage of all the micronutrients).
Excess of micronutrients (particularly copper and boron) can harm plant to such an extent that they can't grow at all - but the algae will do.

puttyman70 · 01-24-2008, 12:10 PM

Sorry to ask such a nu-be question in an advanced discussion but is their somewhere you can learn the math you guys are using. For example to raise K from 10 to 20 ppm how much N do you add? I understand it depends on volume of water but how do you calculate the amount of N to add? Is it possible to do this with seachem ferts? It seems like a lot of the stuff in their instructions are in mg/l.

Thanks, keep up the good work and maybe I'll catch up someday.

kekon · 01-24-2008, 12:20 PM

Quote:

For example to raise K from 10 to 20 ppm how much N do you add? I understand it depends on volume of water but how do you calculate the amount of N to add? Is it possible to do this with seachem ferts? It seems like a lot of the stuff in their instructions are in mg/l.

If you want to raise K by means of KNO3 keep in mind you will also raise NO3. Each 10 ppm of NO3 added by using KNO3 will raise K of 6.3 ppm. To add 10 ppm NO3 in 100 liters of water you will have to add 1.65g of KNO3. However, if you want to know how much N is added you just divide NO3 by 4.44. So 10 ppm of KNO3 is: 10 / 4.44 = 2.25 ppm N.
1ppm = 1 mg/L