did i screw up? - Fertilizing

RI chiclids · 02-02-2010, 09:24 AM

i got my order from aquarium fert.com,i might add it shipped extremely fast,ordered sat am received mon am form cali to ri ,very impressed!!!i think i might have messed up mixing dry ferts,heres what i did the label on the bags said pmdd formula-1part kno3,1partk2so4, 1 part mgs04 ,1 part csm b.i did that but i mixed 1lb each all the dry i had.so i guess my question is is this mix of dry ferts a base line to start from,see how plants react then adjust as nesecary,if this is the case i need to buy more dry correct?my phosphate is good right now i attribute this to fish and food,should i grab some phos. to have on hand as well?i dont know if phos levels will hold or drop as growth becomes more vigorous?i hope someone can give me some advice,i dont know why but the fert thing has me a little intimidated,maybe im just overthinking it,I do that sometimes

thanks in advance,lou

Cliff Mayes · 02-02-2010, 10:05 AM

Most issues are fairly simple (especially in this Hobby.) Do not complicate. Everyone is looking for the Silver Bullet or Magic Button to solve a problem but most of the magic answers to most problems have side effects that are sometimes worse than the problem so look for the simple direct answer first.

I do not know the answer to your situation but I have used fertilizers to adjust a tank and the results were very good so perhaps someone has had experience with your specifics and can chime in with an answer. Be careful though everything on the NET is not golden so wait a day or so for others to have a chance to respond.

It always is wise to have spares on hand and odd chemicals which hopefully never get used, because Ich and other illnesses do not happen on a schedule that allows for quick response. Extra filters, heaters, salt and activated carbon et al are all things to keep on hand for emergencies because it is much cheaper, both emotionally and fiscally, to be able to react as soon as something happens rather than when you can get to a store.

Diana K · 02-02-2010, 10:09 AM

I mix these by the teaspoon, and I am dosing about 700 gallons worth of tanks. You can mix by weight, too. Fractions of a gram.

If you mixed up all the ferts you got, mixed a pound of this and a pound of that with water I would keep this in the fridge as long as it lasts and dose it out perhaps 1 drop per 10 gallons of tank volume at a time. Test to see what levels this gives you.

If you mixed iron (chelated iron, CSM+B also has some iron) with the phosphate (KH2PO4) then there will be a precipitate at the bottom of the container, and I think this locks up the iron so it is not available to the plants. Shaking to blend it back in does not work. It has chemically locked up the nutrients.

Here is how I mix. This is OK for a low tech tank where the fish food supplies quite a bit of NO3.

1 teaspoon KNO3 (Sometimes I will skip this if several tanks show high NO3)
1 teaspoon KH2PO4
6 teaspoons K2SO4
Mix with 2 liters of water and dose 3 days per week @ 1 ml per 1 gallon of tank volume.

I do not add magnesium sulfate or any other GH booster. My GH test shows the plants are not removing much Ca or Mg, and I think the fish food is supplying what is needed. Also, Epsom salt offers no calcium. Plants and fish need calcium. If the GH test shows that it drops through the week, and you need to dose, I would use something that also offers Ca. If you can test each Ca and Mg separately you might find you really do need only Mg, but I sort of doubt it.

Separate container:
1 teaspoon CSM+B
1 teaspoon chelated Iron.
Mix with 2 liters of water and dose @ 1 ml per gallon of tank volume.

RI chiclids · 02-02-2010, 06:12 PM

thanks for the responses,diana i did not mix everything with water .the directions said to mix the 4 dry ferts then dissolve .25 cup with 500ml distilled water.i DID NOT mix phos. and iron iread about the interaction at rex griggs site.I think im just going proceed slowly and cautiously.i dont think ill hurt anything dosing 1ml in 40 gals. everyday with 50% water change every saturday.opinions?comments?

Diana K · 02-03-2010, 07:49 PM

If you are following the instructions at one site, not mixing the directions and dosages, then it should be safe. Simply keep an eye on things, and test the tank with all the tests you have to see how things go.
Each tank, each system is different.

Tex Gal · 02-04-2010, 08:11 AM

If you look on the Fertilizing forum here:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...ing-guide.html

it tells you how much of the powdered dry chemicals to dose for each particular range of tank. This is EI dosing. You can see that there is 3x's as much KNO3 than the other three. I think you will be low on your nitrogen.

A big YES! You will have to adjust your dosing as your plant mass grows. You will need to dose more when you have more plant mass and less when you have less mass.

If you choose EI you will need water changes each week. I do 50% water changes.

Philosophos · 02-08-2010, 03:41 PM

You know, I tend to fertilize at a flat rate for all of my mid to high light tanks. After two weeks of establishment or a couple weeks without trimming, etc. there can be a lot of plant mass gain. If I wait to respond based on observations, I'm slowing my plants down. I dose flat out EI levels from day 1 on and there's no need to adjust.

pmdd is kind of a lean dosing wait and see approach. It's based on phosphate limitation as well, which has become an outdated theory. I'd suggest giving EI a try; it's based on a lot of the same knowledge, but limiting nutrients are never a concern.

medicTHREE · 02-08-2010, 08:59 PM

Being someone who uses PMDD still(with some tweaks here and there) I can tell you that in the end you will want to go to one of the other dosing methods. PMDD really leaves something to be desired in terms of control. It might seem easy, but for starters, it is really hard to keep all those ferts well mixed.

The reason I use it is simple... My substrate is over fertilized and I have mainly root feeding plants (swords) so my water column dosing is limited in importance. Sure, my riparium plants feed off of it, but they have substrate fertilizer too.

wet · 02-09-2010, 08:30 AM

For clarity, the method of increasing dosing to meet plant uptake is somewhere between EI and PPS-Pro, not PMDD. The idea here is there's an optimum concentration of, say, N for a desired plant effect. You still don't want to bottom out of the nutrient else algae and stunting, but you don't want to dose too high into excess, either. Most of the time with high light/CO2 stem tanks that means occasional adjustments as plants respond. Many experienced (they've broken their gardens many times before) gardeners can make these adjustments while watching their plants or algae or simply eyeballing the mass of species they know and still show plus plant health and little to no algae with their desired plant effect.

But good dosing is good dosing by any name.