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You need to read this

3K views 8 replies 6 participants last post by  lonesomeshark 
#1 ·
This contradicts to everything most people "know" about planted tanks. Meaning most people will read this and immediately deny and forget it. Here it is:

"...85% of the processes in a marine ecosystem are governed by microorganisms..."

Compare that to the popular notion that planted tanks are run by careful fertilizing.

Compare that to the fact that no planted tank forum (but this one) has a "Filtration" sub-forum. Usually when people mention their filtration they indicated the model of their filter. That's simply pathetic.

Go ahead, tell me that the sea is not a planted tank.
 
#3 ·
...And you know what filters are meant to provide valuable culturing surfaces for? Microorganisms!

Oddly enough, some of those filter models might just be better than others at hosting such critters. Hence the value in comparing them. ;)

Also, just because I'm in a grouchy mood today: the sea is, in fact, NOT a planted tank. For one, even without carefully collected scientific measurements, I'm gonna hazard a guess it's a bit more saline and whatnot. And it's a lot easier to swim around in, too (alas, the day when I manage to create an indoor planted swimming pool has yet to come...).

I'm all for biological filtration-my tanks use minimal mechanical filtration. And I'm generally opposed to overly meticulous observation of nutrient levels and the like (though that's mostly because I'm a total lazy bum and not for any other purpose). But calling a comparison of mechanical filtration units "simply pathetic" just because there's also a biological component to consider is dodging the issue. I know you like to play devil's advocate, Niko, but using misdirecting arguments isn't really a good way to get there. ;)
 
#4 ·
No argument is getting anywhere unless it is in line with the current dogma. Which in our case is indeed simply pathetic.

About the filters: Here's a typical post about someone describing their filtration:

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"Hi, I am new to planted tanks. I have a 90-P ADA rimless tank and and ADA stand. I dose N, P, K, DPTA Fe + EDTA Fe, Micros daily. I maintain concentrations as per EI. CO2 is 50 bubbles per minute using an an $50 atomizer. My light is 100W of LED, ultra blue, far red, and green for nice color. Substrate is AquaSoil mixed with EcoComplete. My filter is BigNameBrand XF 1000. My fish are 11 cardinals, 2 gouramies, and a pair of Apistos and I will be adding a dozen of gobies soon. Lately I've had problems with string algae showing up. I know how to take care of BGA now, and I know that GDA is normal but these string algae seem to grow faster than the plants. What else do I need to dose? Help me out, I'm going crazy and I love my tank! I'll upload pix later."

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I'm not going to look at this thread any more. I didn't post to get into any discussion or get opinions. I'm afraid I've seen them al over the years. It used to be funny, irritating, sad. None of this any more.
 
#5 ·
#6 ·
So what is the point of this thread? All I know is my planted tank did poorly after not dosing for a few weeks. It wouldn't surprise me if microorganism plays an important role in a tank, but how is this helpful to this hobby? Heck, it took them forever to figure out the nitrifying bacteria in everyone's tank.
 
#7 ·
Only 0.02% of all bacteria are nitrifying!!! We all know how big the effect of nitrifying bacteria is, especially when something goes wrong. So imagine what happens if the other processes go wrong.

Off course, it is not as simple as stop fertilizing, just care for your bacteria. Niko is just swimming against the fertilizer stream:fencing:and wants to point out an aquarium is more than plants and fertilizers.
 
#8 ·
Right on. If people that know one thing - fertilizers - opened their eyes this will be a different hobby.

For one we may actually have real aquascaping in the US, not being stuck in discussing algae, chemistry, and doing the same layouts over and over again. Check out the best American aquascapes from the last 7 or so years. There isn't a single one that is anything impressive.

Modster,

Show me if someone somewhere ever asked "what about everything else" after they heard how we all must fertilize excessively. Nobody asks such questions. In some of my posts you will find answers or information to questions no one ever asks. It's all about things that happen in your tank as you are reading this post. They started to happen in your tank since day 1 and can actually be forced to take a secondary role for some time by excessive fertilization and "amazing plant growth". You decide how important to you is this or that.

Before you try to digest what I said above ask yourself a single question: "Is this hobby better off without critical thinking?". About 95% of the people in it answer "Yes!" because to them this is a "cheap" hobby, they can like gadgets, and "just want to grow plants.". See if you want it that way too.
 
#9 ·
More than Niko just swimming against the current, I think he is on to a very important point here. We so often hear about algae problems and immediately blame light, CO2 management, nutrient excess or deficiency, lack of water changes, take your pick. Many of us hardly ever think of inadequate biofiltration as a possible cause. I am so impressed to have read so many thoughtful discussions on filtration in this forum more so than other sites I frequent. I think if more hobbyists discussed filtration, we would be better off.

To share some observations, I have learned a lot about filtration from my outdoor pond which relies completely on a giant UG and bog filter-- no fancy UV, bead filter, or any external filter for that matter. What's interesting is I get very little algae to start the season (even before plants are established) and even less as the season wears on despite increasing light intensity, temperature, nutrients/organics, all factors that should encourage algae. Unlike many NPT, it's definitely overstocked. No water changes ever. Just autofill evaporative losses. I don't cover half the surface with floating plants according to pond gospel. I do seed frequently with bacteria.

So why is this giant fishbowl in the hot sun not full of algae? Not from my sparkling maintenance routine, that's for sure. Despite my best efforts, this tank has established a balanced ecosystem.

The answer is not absolute turnover volume. I have played with turning the waterfall low for a week with no ill effects. The answer I think is the superior biofiltration of the system as a whole aided by constant surface agitation/oxygenation, surface skimming and proper mixing/flow. The few pockets of algae I get are in areas of stagnation-dead spots. There is an aerator going 24/7. Organics are quickly skimmed off the surface or carried down to the coarse 3/4 to 1.5 inch non-compacting gravel substrate which, thanks to the full length UG filter, acts as a 'living' substrate that effectively processes waste. This pond does not have the usual mucky bottom. Likewise, the bog filter favors the cultivation of a robust micro fauna that enhances root uptake by the vascular plants. Like all filters, it works even better when flow is slowed down to a point.

When we move indoors, the conditions are reversed. Unlike outside, we can fully regulate lighting, temperature, nutrients, CO2 (mostly). What we don't often regulate well in our tanks is filtration. Many substrates are pretty good but gas exchange often suffers over time with root systems/plant health along with it. Could this be why a mature tank can suddenly become not so stable at some point? Should we be stirring the substrate more often now that UG filtration is passé in planted tanks? Is vacuuming really bad for plants?

And, external filters leave much to be desired. HOBs clog. I have owned a number of different canisters in the past and, set up in the standard fashion, they clog too quickly with the usual reduction in flow, channeling, and inefficient contact with microorganisms, dare I say maybe even some counterproductive things going on. The newer ones are only too good at telling us how poor our flow really gets when not maintained regularly.

So, does the OP help advance the hobby? Absolutely. It should open our minds to better possibilities in feeding our bacteria. How often should we dose bacteria? Is flow adequate in our tanks or is our pump underpowered? Can we direct flow in our tanks better and oxygenate the substrate better? Probably. Filling canisters with fewer things apt to clogging and more and coarser biomedia is a good start. The fluidized bed filters look promising. I have switched to sumps in the past year or so and have found them to be immensely less problematic with more possibilities. My 100g display tank has a 45g sump that doubles as bog filter/grow out tank. It can house far more media and a more powerful pump than a canister, so it works for me. Can there be a bog filter in the tank? Sure, in a riparium setup as many are doing or like in the paludarium I just set up.

Forgive my inexcusable rambling and I do not mean to stand on a soap box. I think many of you have many better answers than I do. I just like that topics like the OP give way to many questions.
 
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