Stiphodon rutilaureus fry - Fish for the Planted Aquarium - Aquatic Plant Central

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Old 03-26-2009, 09:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Stiphodon rutilaureus fry

Today I noticed small fry in my tank only occupied by Stiphodon rutilaureus :yahoo:
Since the tank has been split up in two territories I was not really surprised but still very happy. Until I realized that really little is known about raising these critters, rumour has it that the fry migrate to the sea to grow up and return in an adult stage.
Question 1: the migration of the fry, is that really sure, or has it been an assumption?
If true than question 2: in what time frame should reserve for the "run to the ocean": when should I start to add salt and in what speed?
Question 3: any other advice is really welcome!!!!
Grtz,
Rob
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:15 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stiphodon rutilaureus fry

http://www.rainbowfish.info/forum/vi...php?f=18&t=163

more info.

in my opinion this is going to be a very hard task. I dont think anyone has bred them yet and it is a likely due to them needing marine conditions to "grow up". They are stated to have very small eggs... my question is, how big are the fry? if they are big enough to find in a decorated tank, are you sure they are their fry? usually if a species needs marine water you are very unlikely to see fry...

anyways, you may be on the verge of discovering the ways to breed/raise them... as stated i dont think many people have done so. if it were me, i would emulate amano shrimp breeding/raising and see where that got me, then use my findings as a jumping off point to make the process work for fish fry.

as far as your question about assuming their breeding, yes, it likely is only assumed. you also could have a totally different species, one that may not need marine water at all. who knows.

got any pics? where did you obtain the adults? any location/collection information?
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:07 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stiphodon rutilaureus fry

Hi there. Read this post:

http://forums.loaches.com/viewtopic.php?t=15686


The guy from Japan claims he has breed them in FW.
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Stiphodon rutilaureus fry

Hi,
I obtained the adults at a lfs and I am pretty sure it is Stiphodon rutilaureus, the question are the scientsists sure which is which because I found a lot of arguing between them. Btw, all Stiphodon are fresh water fish in the adult life.
I am definitely convinced that they are the offspring of the parents because they are alone in a tank and the plants were obtained from my "plant tank" containing no fish or shrimp. Foto's are impossible since it is even hard to see them with the naked eye.
The japanese guy does not really reveal any information so I don't consider him as a reliable source (no hard feelings). I think I will slowly bring the salinity of the water up in the course of a week, lets see what happens.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stiphodon rutilaureus fry

Oh I meant photos of the adults. Although if you can barely see the fry, are you sure they aren't an invertebrate of some sort? I don't mean to keep asking, but we may as well get all possibilities out of the way. If you can barely see it, it could be something else entirely.

"Newer" fish to the hobby are usually those that get renamed and moved around on phylogenetic trees, so the fighting is normal. I only wanted to know/ensure that we're all talking about the same fish, hence me asking for a photo. Perhaps we could help make sure the basics are right before thinking about the raising fish that are known to be misID'd frequently.

GL.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:37 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Stiphodon rutilaureus fry

Hi,
I am sure that it is fish fry because though small I can see a spine and it also more or less jumps through the water like the parents.
I don't have a photo yet because my camera has really problems with focusing (and I sold my old analog and trusty Leica ) but this fish is the clone of my (fishy) father; http://users.edpnet.be/geekspace/IRG...laureus_01.jpg. It is not similar but identical.
I don't mind that you are inquisitive, if it is a first it's better to document it well, right?
Gr,
Rob
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:17 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Stiphodon rutilaureus fry

Before leaving the house today I did some home work on describing the tank conditions I keep my Stiphodons and how I retrieved the fry. Since this is a work in progress do not mind typos but questions and advice is always welcome. Pictures wil follow in day or two.



Housing of the group

A group of 6 Stiphodon rutilaureus composed of 2 males and 4 females is housed in a 60*30*40 cm tank containing 45 liter water.

Layout of the tank

The bottom of the tank is covered with gravel sized 3-5 mm. On both sides of the tank sheets of lime stone are stacked horizontally in such way that a three- to four- floored “apartment” building is formed, thus allowing two territories to be formed. Some plants are put in the middle area such as Hygrophila polysperma, Elodea densa and Lysimachia nummularia aurea. The plants are to provide some cover but are not allowed to dominate, finally scattered over the floor are some lime stone chips.

Technical aspects

The tank is situated in front of a window facing north east thus allowing sunlight from sunrise for about 90 minutes. Additional light comes from a single T8 (Philips 827) from 9 am til 9 pm.
The tank is filtered over a pot filter of 1.2 liter that is driven by a 330 L/h pump creating quite some current.
The temperature is kept at 25 degrees C.

Water treatment

Every other week 10 L of water is removed and replaced with 10 L cold (!) tap water. Based on a daily basis, plant fertilizer and chelated iron is added to stimulate plant and algae growth.
No additional CO2 is added.

Water Values

Water temperature: 25 degrees C
pH: 7.2 (measured with calibrated Milwaukee pH 600)
KH: 6.0 (measured by drop test from Sera in “sensitive mode”= double volume)

Maintenance of the tank

Algae are allowed to grow in the tank however, green algae are removed from the glass although not very thoroughly because I don't want to disturb the inhabitants. Hairy algae are removed if they cover more than 5 % of the tank.
Plants are trimmed if they grow higher than about half the height of the water level ( I have seen pictures of the natural habitat and these streams seem to be devoid of plant life and is flooded with light. Streams are in open grassland so little shade is provided.).

Feeding of the parental fish

The fish are always seen grazing on algae. Initially when I got them they stayed in a well planted 23 L tank together with some cherry shrimp and in that tank they seemed to enjoy the hairy algae growing on the back ground the best. They never touched the Vipachips from Sera but they loved the Wels-chips from the same manufacturer. That is until this day what they eat, however there is an article (I think it was in a German aquaristic magazine) that postulates that fish eating algae are actually also absorbing a substantial portion of biofilm. So there is a debate on how vegetarian these grazing fish really are. That is also why I try to do as little on the tank as possible, in order to obtain a (near) complete as possible spectrum of bacteria and aquatic plankton.
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Old 03-28-2009, 10:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stiphodon rutilaureus fry

Are the fry free swimming? If they are, why not keep them in FW and see if they grow?
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Old 03-28-2009, 11:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Stiphodon rutilaureus fry

I do, I split he group in two and half of them remains in the parental tank, the other half I put in separate tank filled with water of the original tank. Today I have added two teaspoons of sea salt toe the salt water group and I noticed that the fish quickly moved to the saline area and remained there. The density is still slightly under 1.000 but I will add salt every day and observe their behaviour. This is really interesting stuff!
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Old 03-28-2009, 02:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stiphodon rutilaureus fry

Perhaps a more conservative approach would be to remove some portion of fry to a brackish tank, leave some where they are with the parents and some in a fw tank like the one they were hatched in but w.o the parents. (depending on the number of fry you have available)
-marrow
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