gonathan85

Hi hi hi! One month ago, I transferred the contents of my 10g to a new 20g. I added more plants, substrate (fluorite black), water (duh), and a few tetras.

I'm interested in moving my small school of tetras to the newly unused 10g.

I'd like to keep a breeding pair of cichlids in this 20g. I've been testing levels, and am stable enough to add new fish at this point. Plants, fish, and tank are thriving! I plan to remove the moss covered "tree" in the back right corner, and replace with a stack of rocks to give a cave hiding spot.

What are my options as far as keeping dwarf cichlids? I've read up on GBRs, but am terrified to even try to keep a pair alive. It seems that they have a high mortality rate, and can be picky about pristine water conditions.

So, all in all, what pairs of cichlids would you recommend I keep in this 20g?





Thanks!
Nate

mudboots

Apistogramma species of Kribensis (Pelvachromis) species are relatively easy to maintain and nice on top of that. Shop around though. I've seen them range from $6.00 a fish to $99.00 a fish depending on the specific breed et cetera available. The hardiest are the wild caught, which you can find from sellers here on APC if you know where to look. You might try checking out invertzfactory.com, as the owners are members of this forum and they currently have some wild stock available.

Six

Tank raised apistos would be good- wild ones may be a bit picky for an apisto newb but it depends.
i would 100% say pelvicachromis. they are awesome, easy to keep, stunning, and breed easily. I used to breed several species and it was a blast.

P. taeniatus "Keinke"



P. pulcher "Red" (I've been yelled at, literally, for calling them pulchers but that is what the meristics point to)


I don't keep Pelvics anymore though, moved on to different fish.

Philosophos

I'll second the apistos. Do your homework if you want spawns and viable fry though; some are more of a challenge not to breed, some take real work.

Rams can be stable, you just need to know your source; local breeders, and as close to wild caught as possible will give you far better results. Don't just buy them without knowing; there's a certain wholesaler that supplies a jaw dropping number of stores, both big box and LFS. They have done an amazing job of ruining rams for everyone in the US, and Canada as well.

Kribensis are a great choice as well, for every reason listed here. Keep an eye on them though; you'll find the odd maladjusted female that is content to kill everything in your tank including her mate, especially around spawning time.

Any Dicrossus spp. or Taeniacara candidi are also options if you're doing regular water changes. I wouldn't bother with them in that tank if you're trying to get fry out of them though; you'd have to move the eggs out to more acidic conditions to hatch them. Beautiful fish all the same.

-Philosophos

Six

Just to round out the discussion, I've never had that happen and I've bred all types of pelvics in all types of tanks with differing tank mates. I'd say killer females is the exception more so than the rule. I wouldn't not get the fish because of this possibility.

Phil- have you kept this species? I've tried and good god, I hated it. It was one of those fish I've dreamed of having and when I finally go them they were finicky and looked like crap, even with regular changes with RO. My fish were F1's too. Just wondering what you've done with them. I'd pretty much never suggest them to a newb to dwarf cichlids. JMHO.

gonathan85

I greatly appreciate all the advice, and have been hearing consistent replies since the beginning of my search. I'm partial to some of the kribs and apistos, but am extremely interested in keeping at least a pair or trio of dwarf cockatoo cichlids.

Has anyone had experience with these fish? Suggestions?

Also: great pics of the apistos, six!

Philosophos

I agree 100% it's definitely the exception, and they won't destroy the tank in one day. They can always be separated or taken back.

Haven't kept them, but I'm heavily considering it. I've been doing my reading on the subject, and I find mixed reviews. Some people are getting spawning behavior and occasionally nonviable eggs in 6-7pH with weekly 50% WC's, others are having them die off at 5pH despite their best efforts. I wouldn't recommend it to a new fish keeper, but so many of us keeping planted tanks also keep up on our water changes, and push our KH/pH down.

Personally I wouldn't recommend a lot of fish around the F1 stage to new keepers; perhaps rams, generally not apistos, definitely not discus. Even the normally easy angel fish are noticeably more sensitive when you start getting close to wild caught genetics.

Now if you've heard something from people who breed these fish, and they're finding adaptation to local parameters is poor, then I'd definitely retract my recommendation.

-Philosophos

gonathan85

LFS will only order cockatoo cichlids in groups of 30-40 since they have had issues with them. There is no way I can afford 30-40 fish at once...let alone the room to keep them.

Buying fish online gives me the heeby jeebies.

HoldingWine

I agree with the Pelvicachromis. They're usually not too bad on price either (P. pulcher that is). It is quite the sight watching a pair heard around a whole pack of fry.

Not to derail the thread.... Phil and Six, have you noticed any extreme amounts of digging by Pelvicachromis sp? I was considering obtaining another pair for my NPT, but I remember them to be quite the little excavationists.

ed seeley

Got to agree with all of this. Pelvicachromis are much less bother than Apistos IME and I've kept a bred a range of both. Beautiful colours and behaviours too.

This is very interesting Six. Why were they shouting at you? Were they trying to tell you these were P.sacrimontis? I keep P.pulcher 'Red' and they are definitely a form of pulcher, not sacrimontis. I've seen sacrimontis and know people who have bred them and they do have a red form too, but it is different from the red form of P.pulcher.

As to moving onto other fish - did you try the group 1 Pelvics? These larger species are a real challenge and much more aggressive. Beautiful too!

Also from what I've seen the reports of killer pulcher females are almost always due to people keeping them in too small tanks. Kribs will control the entire area of a 2ft tank. Some will allow some fish to survive in that and some won't. Give them a 3ft, or longer, tank and there should be room for fish to get out of the way unless they are too slow or stupid!!! Keep them in an 18" long tank and you could well have a bloodbath.