simplepso

Hi to all,

Advise Requested:
Can i use Seachem excel as a sort of replacement for Co2 as i have read else where that excel is not good for certain plants.?
If is use only half or 1/3 of the recomended dose mentioned on the bottle, will it still hurt the plants i have?
Also please let me know if i can use the other flourish products like - Nitrogen, Phosphorus, Potassium, Iron/
R all these necessary for the plants i have?
Does JBL have Macro fertilizers like mentioned above - or only Ferropol along with daily Ferropol 24 is sufficient.?

Setup:

NON-CO2
Lighting : 1.09 wpg
Gallons: 55.5 USG
Ph: 7.4
KH: 4 dKH
Based on PH, KH : Co2 stood @ 6 mg/l (which i assume is very less)

Surface Agitation: NO, spraybars are dropped downward.
Airstone: ON, only when lights are turned OFF (Both are set on timers)
Weekely JBL Ferropol is added, Daily JBL Ferropol 24 is being added.

Plants: Vals, Amazon, Anubias, Hygrophilia corymbosa, Cabomba caroliniana, Egeria Densa, Hygophilia Difformis, Juncus repens
Live Stock: Discus, Neon Tetra, Black Tetra, Corydoras, CAE, CL

K Randall

I can't speak to your Excel question, so I'll leave that for others. I CAN tell you that running airstones at night is a mistake, if the tank is appropriately stocked. Your plants will benefit MUCH more from the build-up of CO2 over night. Yes, the pH will fluctuate, but that is OK. It is normal in MANY natural bodies of water. It is not uncommon to measure a pH of 5.5 first thing in the morning, and then 8.0 or higher late in theday when the plants have been photosynthesizing all day. You are running this tank with a reasonable KH which will buffer those swings to some extent. But remember that some of the plants you are planning to use can also extract carbon right from the carbonates/bicarbonates in the water, so you will need ro change water FAITHFULLY. Or your water will become very, VERY soft and unstable.

simplepso

Thanks bro,

Well, i do a strict WC of 20-25% weekely.

kaganesti

Excel can sorta be used as an alternative to supplementing the plants with a carbon source. However CO2 is still much better if you can use it properly. Seems like you having a low tech tank? If so, usually excel will be sufficient.
Dosing will definitely help your plants but we must be careful not too overdose. Often light and Co2 are the limiting factor, the main culprits that affects the plant growth more.

JeffyFunk

While there are several plants, mosses and lichens that do not respond well to excel (like val's), you can still dose excel. Just be sure to start with a low dose and slowly increase it over time, checking the condition of your plants to make sure they are responding well.

Excel is a great substitute for CO2, as well as a great compliment to CO2 as well. It is not a good substitute for CO2 as your tank size and light intensity increases, however, as it then starts to get very expensive to keep up with their carbon demands.

Diana K

The other Seachem products you list (Nitrogen, Phosphorus...) are some of the many fertilizers that plants need to grow.
You know the long list of vitamins that people require? Well, plants need about 16 of the simple elements (not vitamins) to grow. They make their own enzymes, proteins and everything starting with these elements.

The first 3 are the actual fertilizers, and are grouped together and called Macros. Better to dose each one separately depending on your plants' needs.

Nitrogen: In our aquariums plants can take in N in the form of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. The main source of N in a low tech tank is fish food. The protein in fish food is broken down by the fish, bacteria and other microorganisms to a point that plants can use it. In a heavily stocked tank you might be feeding enough to take care of the plants. Test the NO3. If it is pretty consistently between 5-20 ppm, or if you have to do water changes to keep it low, then the plants have enough. If the NO3 keeps hitting 0, then the plants may be deficient. Using it all and needing more.

Phosphate: Like N, the main supply in a low tech tank is fish food. I would simply go by the NO3 test, and assume the phosphate is either OK, or not enough, and dose phosphate at the same ratio as N. This does not mean the same amount! It means that if you find you need half what the bottle is labeled of N then use half the rate that the phosphate bottle is labeled.

Potassium: Some tap water has potassium, but in my tanks this was one of the first fertilizer I needed to add. Fish food does not have very much. I add potassium to all my tanks, and monitor the plants.

This next group of nutrients plants need in amounts that are somewhat less than the macros, but more than trace amounts.

Calcium and Magnesium are tested as GH. Most tap water has these minerals, though the levels vary wildly. These are very important to fish, also. Soft water fish come from water with a very low GH. Many aquarium plants will grow OK in low GH water, so long as both Ca and Mg are present. If the GH is less than 3 German degrees of hardness I would supplement with a GH booster, or at least try to figure out if both Ca and Mg are present in acceptable ratios. Plants use roughly 3-4 parts Ca to 1 part Mg. Hard water fish come from water that is high in GH. Most aquarium plants will do just fine in hard water, though there are some that really do require soft water. That list is quite short, though.

Iron: often included with trace minerals, but plants seem to use more iron than is in most blends. This was the other element that I needed to start supplementing pretty early on. A separate iron supplement is a good idea. Use a chelated iron. This means it is bound in a special molecule that allows plants to use the iron, but the iron will not get locked up in a way that plants cannot use it.

The other elements that plants use, they need in much smaller amounts. There are less than a dozen of them. Many are minerals that would be toxic if there were at too high a level in the tank.
These are the minerals that are referred to as Trace or Micros.

Together, all these are casually referred to as fertilizers, but technically only the first 3 are really fertilizers.

Carbon is not usually thought of as a fertilizer. CO2 from the air can dissolve in water, and aquatic plants take the CO2 from the water. It is important to have the right amount of surface agitation so more CO2 will enter the water as the plants use it up. At night plants add CO2 to the water. As long as the fish are OK in the early morning do not drive off this CO2.
Another source of carbon in a low tech tank is the decomposition of plant parts. It is a slow, low, constant source.
Some plants can use carbonates as a source of carbon.
Excel is a source of carbon that plants can use, but not all plants do OK with it. Of your list Vals do not like it, and I know Anacharis does not. There are a few others, but I do not remember now what they are. Lower doses may be acceptable to these plants.

Carbonates are also one of the most common buffers in an aquarium, that stabilize the pH. The pH swings from CO2 seem not to bother the fish. There are charts comparing the KH and pH and coming up with a value for CO2. If ALL there was in the tank was KH to buffer the pH, then the charts would not be too far off. But there are way too many other things in aquariums to use those charts. Use a drop checker. It also is not 'the best', but it is much better than the charts, and a whale of a lot cheaper than any other method.

If the pH is changing because of adding pH altering minerals or salts this can be a problem. Not so much because of the pH, but because of the minerals or salts. Fish are best if the levels of all the things dissolved in the water (Total Dissolved Solids, TDS) stays stable.

aquabillpers

Diana K,

What an excellent response! Thanks.

Bill