Question on the grade of Greg Watson chemicals - Greg Watson

Dr. Quinn · 05-15-2005, 11:31 AM

Greg Watson says he is selling "technical grade" chemicals. It is my understand that "technical grade" is another term for "laboratory grade," which, in the tech tree of chemical purity grades, is actually the lowest grade available. The primary use for this grade is (as I understand it) manufacturing and general laboratory use where no official standards for quality or impurity levels exist. In other words, both impurities and their levels are unknown.

We are not using these chemicals for these purposes, we are using them for aquaculture. It seems to me these chemicals should at the very least be USP (United States Pharmacopeia), NF (National Formulary), FCC (Food Chemicals Codex), EP (Pharmacopeia), or BP (British Pharmacopeia) grade. All of these grades are considered the same in the tech tree of purity grades, and are just above lab or technical grade.

The impurities present in these chemicals can include acid-insoluble matter, alkali compounds, aluminum, ammonium, arsenic, barium, calcium, chloride, copper, fluoride, heavy metals, helium, insoluble matter, iodate, iron, lead, magnesium compounds, manganese, nitrate, nitrite, organic volatile impurities, phosphate, selenium, sodium, sulfate, and sulfur.

For those who don't know, here's the purity grade tech tree:

=============================================
GC Resolv
OPTIMA
HPLC
Pesticide
Spectranalyzed
Biotechnology
Scintanalyzed
Electronic
TraceMetal
Certified ACS Plus
Certified ACS
Certified
USP/NF/FCC/EP/BP
Histology
Laboratory and Technical

ACS = American Chemical Society
HPLC = High Performance Liquid Chromatography
GC = Gas chromatography
=============================================

AaronT · 05-15-2005, 11:47 AM

Well, Greg Watson is about the nicest guy you're likely to meet and does not make much profit, if any, off of the chemicals he sells. He's just a hobbiest like the rest of us and there are literally hundreds upon hundreds of people using his chemicals for several years now with no ill effects to flora or fauna.

Hidronium · 05-15-2005, 11:48 AM

My experience is otherwise.

I recently bought several quemicals through a pharmacy. They buy them themselves to make medicines, though very few pharmacies in spain still do and it was relatively difficult to find one.

Quote:

"(for) laboratory use where no official standards for quality or impurity levels exist. In other words, both impurities and their levels are unknown."

Well, together with the product I have been given the corresponding purity ANALISIS, and the purity is above 99.9% for all of them, without any traces or arsenic, heavy metals, chlorine, etc.

I cannot agree based on my experience that laboratory chemicals are the least grade. I find that statement totally misguided and I made the effort to find these quemicals for exactly the opposite reasons.

Take into account that they are used to make medicines for HUMAN use!!!!!!!!!

Regards,

Hidronium

Hidronium · 05-15-2005, 11:55 AM

GrandMasterofpool is totally right.

You seem to be very informed and I find it surprising that you got the basics wrong.

Using laboratory compounds to fertilize is the best idea one can have in acuaria, and Greg must be a very good guy if he offers them to you.

It took me 3 months and 50USD to get my stuff, I wonder how much and how long Greg would take to get you those products.

It is totally unfair that you question this man, It is the first time I hear of someone offering them directly to acuarists, he deserves a monument and I only know of him from this post.

U ought to make an order from him now. You will not only make it up for your post, but you and your acuarium will benefit greatly from using them wisely.

Regards Hidronium

Dr. Quinn · 05-15-2005, 12:59 PM

Hi, I'm new here and my name is Dr. Quinn.

This is not a rant, this is an examination of facts.

Greg Watson states that he sells tech grade chemicals.

Tech grade is the lowest grade in the purity tech tree.

I just did a search on Google, here's the top result, which near exactly matches what I posted:

https://www1.fishersci.com/support/faq/faq_chem.jsp

Now let's go to a laboratory supplier. I'll pick Lab Depot. Again, check the prices. Tech grade is the cheapest available. Look at the impurities listed on the higher grades.

http://www.labdepotinc.com/chemicals...~letter~c.aspx
http://www.labdepotinc.com/chemicals...~letter~m.aspx
http://www.labdepotinc.com/chemicals...~letter~p.aspx

Again, this near exactly matches my post.

Look at Greg Watson's prices. They are extremely cheap. Look at the prices from the lab supplier. Even tech grade chemicals are much more expensive than Greg Watson's prices. This makes me wonder how Greg Watson can afford to even break even at the prices for which he is selling his chemicals. Is it because he is selling the absolute cheapest grade of chemicals available?

If you bought your chemicals from a pharmacy and they included a purity analysis, it wasn't lab/tech grade, it was something higher. Again, look at the links I posted. Look at the lab supplier, you'll see there isn't a purity analysis for lab/tech grade. Are you not understanding the concept behind the tech tree?

If you want to attack me because I am a skeptic and Greg Watson is a nice guy, fine. But that doesn't change the facts, nor my right to question what I am buying.

gnatster · 05-15-2005, 01:03 PM

I haven't had the time to check out the links yet but...

Lets all turn the rhetoric down a notch or two and let Greg address the issues. Remember folks this is his area on APC.

Thanks

Hidronium · 05-15-2005, 01:42 PM

Fair enough, but I find it pointless to discuss the purity grade of chemicals if there is no evidence that this represents a practical risk to our acuarium.

He is just speculating with no real purpose other than discrediting Greg Watson.

Gnaster, Quinn should have sent a private message to Greg, before posting. Now Greg is at a disadvantage until he gets the chance to respond.

I do not think this is fair on Greg.

Regards Hidronium

Dr. Quinn · 05-15-2005, 01:48 PM

I am in no way attacking Greg Watson. Nowhere did I say "Don't buy from Greg Watson" or "Greg Watson is dishonest" or "Greg Watson is stinky."

All I said is he advertises that he's selling "lab/tech grade" chemicals. And I pointed out that this is the lowest grade on the chemical purity tech tree, and perhaps maybe he should instead be selling USP/NF/FCC/EP/BP grade. That's it!

gnatster · 05-15-2005, 01:53 PM

Ok, everyone has had their say for now.

Any more posts from anyone but Greg at this point in this thread will be removed. The includes you, your mother and any one thinking, he can't mean me.

Yes I can, and do.

gregwatson · 05-15-2005, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gnatster

Ok, everyone has had their say for now.

Any more posts from anyone but Greg at this point in this thread will be removed. The includes you, your mother and any one thinking, he can't mean me.

Yes I can, and do.

Thank you,

I checked my website thoroughly, only one product item said "technical grade" (Calcium Chloride) and I will check to see if that is still accurate with the latest 50 pound bag that I received. Nothing else was described as "technical grade" as alleged ...

However, all the others are described as following (agricultural):

Quote:

Mono Potassium Phosphate 1 lb. KH2PO4

We offer chemicals for agriculture. All have minimal impurities, and are suitable for the do-it-yourselfer with experience in handling chemicals. Most are available in 1 lb. quantities. Your online source for aquatic PMDD ingredients.

Quote:

Potassium Sulfate 1 lb. K2SO4 We offer chemicals for agriculture. All have minimal impurities, and are suitable for the do-it-yourselfer with experience in handling chemicals. Most are available in 1 lb. quantities. Your online source for aquatic PMDD ingredients.

Quote:

Potassium Nitrate 1 lb. KNO3 also known as saltpeter. We offer chemicals for agriculture. All have minimal impurities, and are suitable for the do-it-yourselfer with experience in handling chemicals. Most are available in 1 lb. quantities. Your online source for aquatic PMDD ingredients.

Quote:

Calcium Carbonate (Fine) 1 lb. This is a dolomitic and also includes Magnesium CaMgCO3. We offer chemicals for agriculture. All have minimal impurities, and are suitable for the do-it-yourselfer with experience in handling chemicals. Most are available in 1 lb. quantities. Your online source for aquatic PMDD ingredients.

Quote:

Magnesium Sulfate 1 lb. We offer chemicals for agriculture. All have minimal impurities, and are suitable for the do-it-yourselfer with experience in handling chemicals. Most are available in 1 lb. quantities. Your online source for aquatic PMDD ingredients.

I think that fairly accurately represents the real truth. I will personally check the grade on the Calcium Chloride and if the description isn't accurate with the newest bag I received, I'll make sure that the description is "technically" correct <grin> ...

Greg