Badandy538

Can a DIY CO2 system work in a 50 gallon tank?

I've been reading and apparently it's controversial---saying it won't benefit anything larger than a 30 gallon tank. Also, they've noted that diy cause algae booms in larger aquariums. Is all this true?

In terms of plants, I have anubias nana, java fern, and some floaters: frogbit and water lettuce. I have fancy goldfish.

I was thinking of making a DIY system (and diffusing it in one of my aquaclear HOBs) and dosing weekly with Seachem Flourish (not excel).

Advice? Opinions? Recommendations?

Thanks everyone!

The Trigger

I found it effective for a while and it turned out to be a bigger pain in the a$$ than anything. The violent swings in co2 levels caused incredible amounts of beard algae that I couldn't eliminate. So I upgraded to a pressurized system and haven't had anything but great results. Id say use only Excel for now and don't even bother with the DIY. Upgrade to pressurized if you can. I really wish I would have done it from the start. But I wouldn't evwn bother honestly

The Trigger

So yes its very true. I did it for two years and it was the biggest waste of time.

Badandy538

Thanks Trigger.

aquaman555

I am unsure on such a big tank, but have heard that it is not good on over 30 gallons like you said. I have used it on my 29 gallon for a year and have had no problems at all and am very happy.

However with those simple plants it might work, not exactly sure on algae blooms though. That would probably depend on how strong your lighting is, with very strong lighting it would definitely be more effective and easier on algae with a pressurized setup, especially on that size of tank. It probably will not be nearly as consistent on 50 gallons.

What is your lighting setup?

John LeVasseur

It's all a matter of balance. One of the biggest mistakes people make is too many fish, too little light. Co2 systems like the DIY systems will work. But the whole game is in balancing ALL of the issues. If you use a DIY system you have to be diligent on reading your pH, replacing the mixtures BEFORE they run down, using a very efficient reactor and especially not overloading the bio-load (fish poop) in the system for the Co2 levels & light involved.

Algae is caused by excess nitrogen, not from a lack of or variations in Co2. In fact Co2 variations are more extreme the smaller the tank is. Larger tanks maintain Co2 levels better over time since there is more water. Algae is usually a result of either the plants not metabolizing nitrogen fast enough, or you have too many fish. Basically algae is the result of a nitrogen use imbalance. People also either do not realize or do not even know the importance of micro-nutirents especially phosphorus in maintaining an Algae free tank. Too much Co2 can also cause algae. More light will help, but you will also need more Co2 and micro-nutrients in that situation. A planted tank is a complex thing. Balance is essential.

I've had planted 100 gal tanks with vigorous plants using DIY yeast generators and powerful reactors, but only had 50 or so Neon Tetras. Why? Because that was the amount of fauna where I had balance, including my Amano shrimp squad of six. The fish are a part of the bio-system, in fact all of the fauna are; too few you have problems, too many you also have problems. Balance.

Hair algae is easily controlled, with proper fauna actually. Amano shrimp and the real Siamensis algae eater will deal with it in short order.

Most people who have had poor success using yeast generators on 30 gallon tanks or higher, usually do not have a balanced overall bio-system. I had great success using DIY Co2 system in tanks up to 100 gallons, so there you go. You must have a firm grasp on all aspects of the biology of a planted tank before you can say it's one thing or the other causing problems.

This is not to say DIY systems are as good as a regulated Co2 tank system. They aren't. But to discount known experience, and not consider other factors is dubious and arbitrary at best. It certainly does not make for good advice. Look at the big picture, think of your tank as a complete bio-system, and learn how to manage the overall balance of that system and you will have success no matter what you use on whatever size tank you have.

John LeVasseur

Badandy538

Thanks for the responses guys.

I think that might include me.

I have a 50 gallon tank with 8 fancy goldfish (the recommended amount is 3-4).
2--18'' bulbs (came with my tank from petsmart ); each 8,000K Full Spectrum daylight 15W T8. My tank gets some daylight, so the light is only on 5-6 hours a day during the evening hours.
I also have an airpump for a hydrosponge IV and a moving bed filter (kaldness k1 media).


Balance sounds very complicated...and probably not possible with what I have now.
Maybe I shouldn't use a DIY system and should probably use excel in combination with flourish. What do you think, John? Thanks.

John LeVasseur

Yes that may be a bit too many fish for a tank that size ... However

The most important thing in your case would be regular partial water changes.

Also read up on how Co2 levels are affected by water hardness. How hard or how soft your water is will really make a difference on things like; maintaining a consistent amount of dissolved Co2 and not having much variation, the ability to dissolve Co2 and how suseptible your tank is to a "crash".

Co2 will really help out the plants. Once the plants are doing well your fish will benefit also. Gold fish can do very well in low oxygen tanks, but of course do well with more. Also the plants tend to "eat" the waste. Goldfish are big poop producers, so the live plants are good.

I would recommend you go to 6500k lights, it a better color temperature for freshwater live aquatic plants. 8000k is really designed for saltwater tanks and certain corals. Freshwater plants are used to more "greenish" light since they are usually from regions with rainforest canopies. FYI. You also may consider at some point uprgrading your canopy with something a bit more powerful.

A few basic do's & don'ts about DIY Co2.

Don't guess, measure your Co2 levels. Ph kit and water hardeness test are important. Learn the formulas for Co2.

Don't skimp. DIY items like gas separators, check valves, reactors are cheap to make and save alot of aggravation. And always remember that fermentation can create a whole bunch of pressure, use pressure vessels like soda bottles which are designed to deal with pressure. You don't want the thing to blow its top if you have clog and spew the mixture. Your house will smell like brewery for weeks.

Watch your plants. Look for an increase in bubbles coming out of plants. Its what you want to see.

Watch your fish. They tell you alot about your Co2 levels.

You may or may not have seen this link. This article gives you more than enough info on the science of DIY Co2 generation:

http://www.qsl.net/w2wdx/aquaria/diyco2.html

I know because I wrote it.

Good luck and read read read.

John LeVasseur

Badandy538

Very kind. I appreciate all the help.

Thanks for not discouraging the use of DIY...maybe i'll give it a try anyway.
I have a lot of learning to do and I will certainly read your article.

If you have any articles about "balance", please share. I would like to learn more about the relationship between bioload, lighting, and CO2 levels.

6500K. Alright, I'll keep that in mind, and how many watts would you recommend? 1-2 WPG? Hours on per day?

Again thanks for the help.

John LeVasseur

You'll find most of that data is in the article. It's pretty complete and took about two years of research to complete, plus twenty years experience in building planted aquaria.

Also, the real guru on "balance" is a man named Amano Takashi (yes ... the shrimps of the same name were an idea of his to help maintain algae balance in tanks and ended up taking his name as a result.) Any of his published works (both on the web, and in books) are all about balance in biology, eco-systems and even in relationships of man & nature. Taking his philosophical approach to finding natural balance in these closed artificial systems has guided many people to having wonderful tanks. I like to say he's the "Zen Master" of planted aqauria.

Here's one example of one of his masterpieces:



Here's a link to see more:

http://www.amanotakashi.net/portfoli...ium/index.html

Have fun.

John