Plant Deficiency Diagram - Page 4 - Plant Deficiencies - Aquatic Plant Central

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Old 08-26-2010, 11:26 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Default Re: Plant Deficiency Diagram

Hey, Martin.

I'm obviously not hariom, but you may have missed his recent thread discussing his new project: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...as-dosing.html hariom and I have swapped proof of concepts and templates and -- fwiw -- I am impressed and am excited. hariom is a special talent. I would not be surprised if he takes a while to answer to your post considering he is a graduate student and the time of year, fyi.
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Old 09-01-2010, 05:05 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Plant Deficiency Diagram

aaah...guys....just catching up on all these threads...

thanks carlo for covering up my back..i have moved base from Savannah to Cincinnati for an internship! hence the disappearance..

anyways...what do you think about pK comments...

Having BBA not in the tank and using it as a sign is a good question...but the same goes for what if polysperma is not in the tank...the co2 deficiency symptoms were added in from comments from other members...it might not be a sure thing...but many do face the problem...again...i validate the comments by my own experiences in my tank...i do have polysperma in my tank and it is a good indicator... but should we make it a base standard to have polysperma as the second indicator of co2?

carlo....have you seen dan anywhere lately...??? i need to update you on the calc project as well....i'll send you a mail soon.
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Old 09-01-2010, 11:32 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Plant Deficiency Diagram

Hi guys
Just short comment about note in the brackets in point 1, right hand side, about K and M overdose.
I don't think that is likely to be true.
My tap water is soft 2dKH 5dGH and I was keeping K+ level at about 120ppm for 4 weeks with no effect on plants. I dont know what is my Ca and Mg content in my tap water, but I know that there is enough Mg, as I was not adding any Mg to the tank for several weeks and Mg defficency didn't appear so Ca level can't be high, it is probably just enough. Later I was adding 10ppm of Mg per week for several weeks and I suppoose that my Mg level could be as high as Ca level or even higher and I did not experienced any trouble with plants. So I think that statement about Ca defficency in this point is enough and note about K and Mg overdosing can be confusing for many and can lead to defficency of these elements if somebody will think that these elements are overdosed and will cut on dosing them.

Other thing which is quite rare is sulfur defficency which can looks like more or less number 4 on the drawing. In some soft tap water it can be not enough sulfates and I think it could be in my case. As I stated before my tap water is soft, and I dont know my water composition, but I have been able to test the PO4 level with calibrated test and it is 2ppm of PO4. My whole plants for long time has been yellowish and I couldn't figured out what's the reason. I am using EI method so I didn't use any sulfates just KNO3 i KH2PO4 as I never had Mg defficency problems thus I didn't use MgSO4 x 7H2O like many other EI users. One time I have added few spoons of K2SO4 after water change and all plants became greener by the end of the week. My first thought was that I had K defficiency, but after a while I realize that just impossible. First of all dosing KNO3 according to EI is providing enough K, and second I have never seen any pin holes. To prove this I started to dose CaSO4 x 1/2H2O and it worked as well. Now I am just adding MgSO4 x 7H2O to my macro mix as it has much better solubility. By these observations it looks like my tap water hardness is caused by phosphates and maybe chlorides in some bigger part than usual and has not enough sulfates. The only problem is that I can not confirm my observations by certain numbers as I don't run laboratory and I can't get any data from my water supplier.

Last edited by spider72; 09-02-2010 at 03:57 AM..
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Old 09-01-2010, 09:58 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Plant Deficiency Diagram

Interesting observations Spider!
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Old 09-02-2010, 10:09 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Plant Deficiency Diagram

suplhur deficiency is interesting...i need some comments from the pros on this one...any thoughts moderators???
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Old 09-02-2010, 05:12 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Plant Deficiency Diagram

I know that sulfur is being used in protein synthesis and its deficiency is pretty similar to nitrogen deficiency - leaves yellow pretty fast. Magnesium overdose however can wrinkle, deform leaves on plants. It happened in my tank.

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Old 09-06-2010, 10:58 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Plant Deficiency Diagram

HeyPK,

Respectfully, I think that diagram is showing H. polysperma as a healthy, living, and starved plant of not just CO2, but all nutrients and light. For example, while I associate the size of the leaves (and plant mass) with CO2 (C being the biggest portion of plant mass), I think that horizontal growth is the result of non-limiting light. A tank already with B or Ca deficiency may exhibit the symptoms of curled leaves, for example, but before the aquarist with a CO2 enriched tank investigates the smaller macros and the larger micros, s/he should look at CO2. For this reason, I think the use of CO2 as a first step is appropriate in hariom's infographic.

I see how this may be different in a CO2 limited tank.

I do really, really, like the idea of using common aquarium plants as standards for deficiencies. However, I would suggest we stick with smaller scaled plants instead of a H. polysperma. For example, R. indica, H. micranthemoides, B. japonica, M. fluviatilis, and Glosso/ET/HC are great indicator plants and also double as excellent pieces for us folks trying to figure out an aquascape. Perhaps we could start a thread or continue this one with what plants we each like and for what indicators, then see if there's a consensus to build upon?

hariom,

I've not seen Philosophous around this or the other forum I frequent. Might tackle toxicity on our proof of concept in a second though.
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Plant Deficiency Diagram

Quote:
Originally Posted by wet View Post
HeyPK,

Respectfully, I think that diagram is showing H. polysperma as a healthy, living, and starved plant of not just CO2, but all nutrients and light. For example, while I associate the size of the leaves (and plant mass) with CO2 (C being the biggest portion of plant mass), I think that horizontal growth is the result of non-limiting light. A tank already with B or Ca deficiency may exhibit the symptoms of curled leaves, for example, but before the aquarist with a CO2 enriched tank investigates the smaller macros and the larger micros, s/he should look at CO2. For this reason, I think the use of CO2 as a first step is appropriate in hariom's infographic.

I see how this may be different in a CO2 limited tank.

I do really, really, like the idea of using common aquarium plants as standards for deficiencies. However, I would suggest we stick with smaller scaled plants instead of a H. polysperma. For example, R. indica, H. micranthemoides, B. japonica, M. fluviatilis, and Glosso/ET/HC are great indicator plants and also double as excellent pieces for us folks trying to figure out an aquascape. Perhaps we could start a thread or continue this one with what plants we each like and for what indicators, then see if there's a consensus to build upon?

hariom,

I've not seen Philosophous around this or the other forum I frequent. Might tackle toxicity on our proof of concept in a second though.
I picked H. polysperma because it shows such variability in growth at different CO2 levels. In my experience, the type of growth (horizontal or vertical) seems to be most dependent on CO2 and rather independent of light from about 2 watts fluorescent per gallon on up. Even with a lot of room, good nutrient levels, 2-3 watts per gallon and no crowding from other plants, I see vertical growth as in the second drawing when I am not adding CO2, but the fish are supplying some. In this case the Hygrophila has enough CO2 to grow slowly. When bicarbonate using plants are drawing the CO2 down to very low levels and the pH is high, Hygrophila polysperma stops growing and the leaves slant downwards as in the third drawing. I know of no other plant that shows such changes in appearance based on CO2 levels.
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Old 09-10-2010, 07:00 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Plant Deficiency Diagram

Thank you -- progress!

I am only speaking of my experience in my tanks, of course, but I pick H. micranthemoides, which will get transparent new growth with trace deficiency and specifically lose it's rather unique candy-apply-green color with low Fe. In reading HeyPK's description above, I would include it and R. mexicana 'Goias' as plants who "droop" with low CO2, which I have seen, but I'm still standing by my light argument and that a plant allowed to fill a space will usually fill a space to ensure it outcompetes its neighbors

I also pick R. indica, which, after trimming, will send oblong leaves with N limitation. This can be fine if you're limiting N for whatever reason. Example: younger stem on the right.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:23 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Plant Deficiency Diagram

Greetings all,

I have updated the infographic. For ease of documentation and maintenance, i have created a special website which will host all of these infographics. A bunch of features will be added to the site over a period of time.

So, i invite you all to view the updated version here:
Aqua Calc Infographics
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