RedDelPaPa

After reading that article, you find out that plants will use nitrates if they have to, but not by choice. And if being forced to use nitrates, it requires energy from the plants in order to convert the nitrates back into ammonium in order to build the plant proteins. I'm assuming this energy to do so more than likely comes from the lighting. This could be me and my Dad's Achilles heel. We have never followed the lighting guidelines. We have never needed to. For example, I have a 75 gal with 80 watts of florescent lighting. 2x 40 watt 48" full spectrum tubes. By any guideline, this is rock bottom. However, to me, it's plenty. Maybe even to much. I have floating hornwort that covers almost the entire surface of the tank. The light up there is so bright, that my hornwort is super thick and red almost 1" deep. And rooted in the gravel, I have a species of plant with one of the highest light requirements of any aquatic plant. Or so they say. Straight Val. And it's growing like crazy and bright green. It looks great. So to me, I feel I have plenty of light. And in this tank, I have no bio filtering other than what's on the surface of everything in the tank. Which you can't do anything about. The only filtration I ever use is a HOT AC500 for mechanical filtering only. And only when needed. Maybe once a week. And I dry out the media after use. So there is no nitrifying bacteria present. This tank is stuffed chuck full of juvi malawi cichlids, and adult swordtail's and guppies as dither fish. No air stone, and the tank has glass tops in place to help keep CO2, heat, and evaporation in, and surface scum out.

To conclude, I have come up with a new theory. Just maybe, when the plants do not have ammonium available to them, due to heavy bio filtering, and they're forced to use nitrates, they're not receiving enough energy through light, than they are having to expend in order to convert NO3 back to NH4 to produce plant proteins. Therefore, they are caught in a life threatening situation, and slowly wilt away and die?

Red

AaronT

I've started running my 75 gallon tank with just some bioballs in the canister filter. Whenever I need to remove particulate matter from the water column I run a power head with a quickfilter. I have 32 rummynose, 12 ember tetras, 15 diamoad tetras, 12 false panda cories, and several shrimp and snails. The fish and plants are doing great.

Plattykins

So how 'bout posting pics of some o' these filterless tanks for our enjoyment?

Red, I'm going to have to do some reading to catch up to your last question I think! Sounds about right tho, as far as light, energy... making me think back to biology class. Unfortunately, that was many years ago. I know there are some folks here that can fill in the gaps.

AaronT

My tank is in collector farm mode for the time being. I'll post pics when it looks better.

Phil Edwards

It totally depends on what I'm trying to do with the tank. If I've got an Aquatic Garden that I want to enter into a competition I'll do water changes once a week to give a buffer for all the nutrients I dump into it. Other tanks might not ever get a water change and may not even have a filter on them. Most of my tanks don't have fish so I don't feel the need to do water changes all that often as long as the plants are doing well.

Piscesgirl

Here's my filterless 20 gallon long tank, although it is by no means an aquascaped tank (none of mine are at the moment). There are 3 adult Killifish and one juvenile (although he's approaching adulthood it seems as they grow up very fast). I run DIY Co2 and an airstone 24/7. I keep the center clear so I can see the fish, but the rest of the plants are left to grow jungle style. I do, however, do approx 40 to 50 percent water changes, weekly.

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Plattykins

Phil,
thank you for the info. It makes sense now.

Piscesgirl,
nice photo. Lots of plant growth there. I like it. Thank you for the info. I am working on pulling the 2nd of two sponges from my filters today. I am keeping the filter without media to provide circulation instead of a powerhead at the moment (in the 25 gallon so far). At some point, I may try to keep just the airstone (and my cheesy diver guy) running. It will be interesting to see if the water changes become less or more frequent.

Little by little...slow but sure. I have been tracking everything in my journal here on APC. Still have the 10 and the 30 gallon to convert yet.

Piscesgirl

I was glad to share it I had been thinking quite a lot about filters/no filters approximately a year ago -- this tank ran with two clown loaches for several months as well before the Killifish. I was thinking about power outtages and why would I want my beneficial bacteria in a box that was OUTSIDE my tank? So, when the power goes out, it goes anaerobic and can even foul the water when it starts back up. More I thought about it, I figured filterless would be my version of the safest for my fish -- but I also have back up air pumps on the tanks which go on when the power goes off. However, I haven't had the guts to try it with the other tanks, especially the 55 with a large bioload.

Plattykins

"...and why would I want my beneficial bacteria in a box that was OUTSIDE my tank?" - Piscesgirl

yes, sometimes looking back is funny. I guess it just depends on how you view things... that is, how you view the way things work and/or how you want to run your tanks. I must say, removing the filters is quite liberating, but as the hours go by, it is an anxious liberation. I have a heavy fish load in the 25 gallon, so I figure if something is going to go haywire, it will there. So I converted that one first and am keeping a close eye. A month from now, I will look back and chuckle at how huge this seems to me now. But I also think about how much I am relying on the plants .. trusting the plants to do their thing before I had a couple of improvements in place, such as glass tops and additional lighting. What's more is, I've been running my snail tank this way for months without giving it a thought.

Piscesgirl

I understand the anxious part. If I don't do my water change exactly at one week since the last, I start to get very anxious -- as extra days go by, I keep looking at the tank, worrying. Usually then I can't stand it any more and do a water change. In fact, today is a week and I'm thinking of testing the NitrAtes in a bit to see where they are!