Edouard

Hello,

First of all, thanks for helping people like you do here on APC. I appreciate that.

Now my question:

I have used PPS for a while now, but with Seachem Flourish instead of CSM.
The results are not what I expect so I'd like to give CSM a try. (many stunted plants)

I am confused on the dosage of the trace elements solution:

In the PDF file about TE (http://ca.geocities.com/pps@rogers.com/02.04.TE.pdf) you write:
"The number of milliliters you should dose is the number of gallons divided by ten. (in my case, with a 120 gallons tank, that would be 12mL of TE solution per day)."

However, on the following file: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...4&d=1116788098
you write that "we should add 29 drops of TE solution for a 120g tank."
Which makes aroud 1,5mL

What is the appropriate dosage?

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My setup is the following:
120g tank with 360W (300W metal halide and 2x30W fluorescent).

KH: 6°
GH: 8°
pH: 6,80
which should make a CO2 level of 28 ppm

NO3: 10mg/L
PO4: 1mg/L
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My dosing routine is the following:
I add every day
5 mL SS
11 mL Phosphate Free Solution
1 mL MG Solution
5 mL Seachem Flourish
10 drops Dupla Plant 24 (because I think the plants showed a chlorosis with Flourish only)
__________________________________________________ ______________

Thanks in advance for your help.

Edouard

MatPat

Edouard,

I am far from an expert on PPS and had similar plant stunting when I tried it. I am about 99% sure my issues were with CO2 and not any of the nutrients I was adding.

In June of this year, the recommendation for a 75g tank with 3wpg was 1ml of trace solution (I used CSM+B). I don't believe that has changed since then and I think there may be a typo in the first link you referenced. I would go with the 29 drops (20 drops in one ml) you mentioned in the second link and increase it if you think the tank needs more traces...you do have a lot of light on your tank ginve the intensity of the MH lights you are using

plantbrain

E, you can rule out CO2 by simply adding a little bit more.
Same with the traces, I would add more Flourish, maybe 2x the recommendations. CMS uses ETDA and flourish uses a weaker organic complex to bind Fe.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Edouard

Tank you for your answers.

I have added more CO2 in my tank and I'll see if that helps in a few days.

Concerning the dosage of CSM, I'm still puzzled.
Edward writes in his notes that CSM is not as concentrated as commercial micronutriments solutions (for 1mL of Seachem Flourish, we should add around 1,25mL of CSM).

If the daily CSM dose is really 29 drops for my 120gallons, I'm really far from my actual Flourish daily dose (5mL!!).
Moreover I read yesterday two threads about "Flourish dosing in high light tanks" (started by Tsunami or Luis, sorry I don't remember). People (including Tom Barr) stated that the commercial instructions for Flourish in high light tanks were underestimated. Some people add up to 1mL of Flourish per gallon per week!

Please, help me

Edouard

Edouard

Hi everyone,

one month has passed since my latest post.
I tried adding more CO2, but that did not really help.

I switched from Flourish to CSM + B (as finding Flourish in France is not easy).
I now add more traces, but I still don't see "red" in my plants. The plants seems to be in better condition when I add more TE solution (now: 7 mL per day).

Again, Edward, could you please tell me what the recommandation, concerning TE solution with PPS method is? For my tank, is it 2mL per day of 1mL per 10 gallons????
Observing my tank I would think the second is more appropriate? But that's not what I read in other PPS user's posts?

Some of my plants are still stunted (mostly Nasea crassicaulis, Ludwigia inclinata).
I can't determine wether this comes from a manganese excess or from a lack of it!
Some clarification about TE dosage would help tremendously.

Thanks in advance.

PS: I will let you know if any of the advices you give me work.

Edward

Hi
Sorry for the delay. The TE are never determined exactly. There are many elements in many forms and infinite combinations. No one understands it all.
Luckily, there is luxury uptake. What it means is that most plants grow and maintain healthy with 0.000…nothing ppm and also at concentrations of thousand times the average. Secondly, the plants take much more then they need, cleaning the water in the process. Huge flexibility.

For these reasons some people dose 0.01 ppm Fe a day and some 5 ppm a day with same good results. The target is to establish levels as low as possible while maintaining healthy plants and fish. Plants love it and fish hate it.

Because there are no tests and no analysis, we need to guarantee the easy elements first and then play with the TE. The easy elements are NO3 - 20 ppm, PO4 - 1 ppm, K- assured with PPS, Ca > 20 ppm, Mg 1 – 5 ppm and CO2 ~ 30 ppm.