PPS Analysis Form for JC1 - PPS Analysis and Feedback

JC1 · 03-16-2006, 06:51 PM

When did you begin using PPS?
5 days ago. Prior to that, a dosing regime to maintain about 20 ppm NO2, 2 ppm PO4, .5 ppm FE, and who the heck knows what Ca, Mg, or K actually were....

Do you find the PPS system easy to use?
yes

How often do you do a water change?
35% every 1-2 weeks using 2 gal tap for every 1 gal DI (local water is pretty hard). If PPS works, changes will decrease.

Do you use CO2?
yes. pressurized 30-40 ppm (Hagan KH test kit and Milwaukee SMS 102 pH monitor)

What is your aquarium's water volume?
55 gal aquarium, estimated 47 gal water volume

What type of lighting do you use?
Coralife Aqualight CF 6700 K 12 on/12 off period

How many watts of lighting do you have?
130W

Please describe the condition of your plants.
Good growth on all plants except Crypt Lucens, which at times stands up and looks ready to grow. Other times just kind of lays down and looks pathetic.

I do have moderate BBA

. Green spot algae on glass is an on again, off again thing.

Other info: Filtration is Cascade 300 HOB (unaviodable surface agitation). 170 GPM powerhead recirculation through spray bar (pointed down to minimize agitation), substrate 50% flourite with laterite/clay fert balls in root zones.

Please attach the PPS Excel Spreadsheet.
I will attach after one week of use when there is some useful information.... Last samples (when starting PPS after 50% water change) were:

6.8 pH
10 ppm NO3
1.5 ppm PO4
KH 140 ppm/7.84 dH
GH 160 ppm/8.96 dH
Ca 40 ppm (I think...see below)

Plants: Rotala rotundifolia, Ceratopteris thalictroides, Anubias barteri, Cryptocorne Lucens, Echinodorus Ozelot (red and green), Crypt Wendtii Green, Vallisneria spiralis, Dwarf Sagittaria, Sagittaria subulata, Cryptocoryne balansae (i.e. relatively easy to grow plants)

Fish: Assorted rainbows, zebra danois, black neon tetras, oto cats, misc snails

Goal: Fish keeper who wants a great, lush, natural environment for my fish

Stupid question. When measuring Ca using Hagan Nutrafin, I added reagents 1 and 2 per 5 ml directions to 10 ml of sample, then use reagent #3 and got 4 drops. This is about 40 ppm Ca, correct? Or am I screwing this test up? I only started testing CA after starting PPS.

I am relatively new to aquatic plants (less than one year), but have had great gowth to this point but bouts of various algae. I decided to try PPS because of perceived simplicity of dosing coupled with the testing regime, which I need to do since I am a control freak. All test kits have been calibrated against known standards. Another benefit I am looking for is to eliminate the BBA, to which at this point I have been unsuccessful.

Besides confirmation of my Ca tests, I would like any other advice with using PPS. I am relatively well versed in chemistry (nuclear engineer by day), so bring it on.

Edward · 03-18-2006, 06:00 PM

Hi JC1
Mixing hard water with DI creates unstable water parameters changing constantly killing your cryptocorynes and other plants. Few questions, is your water tap or well? If tap then go 100% RO, no DI. Is your substrate increasing your KH? If yes then you will need to do water changes to keep it under control. You done the Ca test correctly, it is 40 ppm and that is good.

Thank you
Edward

JC1 · 03-19-2006, 05:31 PM

The spreadsheet following the first week is attached. BBA not noticeably different over the past 7 days. Plant growth, except Crypt Lucens, still good. Crypt lucens looks OK, and is not as pathetic this week.

Here's my plan (unless smarter minds think otherwise):

1. Reduce daily SS to 1 ml to lower PO4, and keep dosing 1 ml daily until PO4 is around 1.0 (fixing the NO3 problem should also increase PO4 consumption, right???).
2. Up the PF to about 18 ml daily to get NO3 back up where it belongs. By my calculations, if the plants stop using NO3 completely, I will only end up around 23 ppm or so.
3. Reduce Mg dosing to 6 drops/day to promote a 4:1 Ca:Mg ratio.

According to my calculations, the plants used about 1.9-2.0 ppm NO3 daily. Would a better approach be to do a one time KNO3 add to get NO3 up around 10 ppm and dose daily to match the plant uptake?

Quote:

Mixing hard water with DI creates unstable water parameters changing constantly killing your cryptocorynes and other plants.

Let me start by saying I'm on city water. I do plan on eventually getting an RO unit, but need to wait a few months (bought the CO2, lights, pH meter in the last two months. Need to let the better half "forget" before I spend another 150+

)

That being said, though, I don't understand how mixing pure (distilled) water with tap to obtain about 7-8dH for KH and GH and 7.8 pH is any different than taking RO/DI and mixing GH builder, Equilibrium, etc to obtain the same. I mix before adding to the aquarium. All of my plants, including the other Crypts, are growing very well. It is just the Lucens that give me grief. Do I have a gross misconception here?

Finally, I don't think the substrate is affecting KH. I prefer a KH around 7.5 or so to keep my pH around 6.7 or 6.8 because of the rainbows, and the KH hasn't changed appreciably over the past several months. I'll keep an eye on it, though, since I had religiously done 35% water changes weekly prior to PPS and may have "masked" any increases.

Thanks for the help!

Edward · 03-26-2006, 08:20 AM

Hi
Have you tested your tap water? Can you please add the results to the Excel R4 to W6?

RO units are very cheap today because they work for three to five years and make healthy drinking water for the whole house. DI is expensive and not necessary for planted aquarium and drinking.

Mixing distilled or RO water with tap makes stable water, but DI is different. It takes some time to stabilize and during this period some plants and fish find it difficult. I used DI for long time including HCl and NaOH regeneration. My recommendation in these days is 100% RO.

We used to guess the quantities for the following periods. Now we have a calculator helping us with high accuracy, the PPS Dosing Calculator for aquatic plants. Here is the result from 20060312 to 20060318.

Edward

JC1 · 03-26-2006, 06:30 PM

Thanks for the info. I'll switch to distilled water for the time being.... Like I said, an RO unit is in my relatively near future, but I have to wait for the scars from other purchases for the aquarium to fade.

I added the tap water results to the spread sheet. I dosed the 18ml PF and 1 ml SS last week as per my previous post, and my nitrates are back up where they belong. The slight increase in GH is attributed to topping off with tap water. PO4 is still 2, so I am going to stop the SS dosing and see if I can't get PO4 down a little. This week, the plan is to dose 18 ml SS and 1 ml trace and see where that gets me. Hopefully around 15 ppm NO3 and lowering PO4. If PO4 goes up any more, I'll probably do a water change.

The BBA is much better this week. Partially attributed to getting NO3 back up, partially due to CO2 levels being where they are supposed to be, partially due to pruning a huge water sprite which really improved the water flow in my tank.

Is the PPS dosing calculator available on line? I developed a spreadsheet for ppm dosed and plant uptakes, but am having a hard time working out the recommended dosage equations since there are three choices for dosing (PF, NF, SS).

Thanks again for the help.

Jim

Edward · 03-26-2006, 07:27 PM

You are doing great,
The PO4 should go down slowly and even if not, that’s fine. Your last week dosing was a good choice too. Sorry, the calculator is not available. I will attach the calculator results any time you post your data.

There is a misprint in your last post.
This week, the plan is to dose 18 ml SS and 1 ml trace and see where that gets me.
I am sure you mean 18 ml PF.

The calculator recommendation is the same.

Thank you
Edward

JC1 · 03-27-2006, 06:32 AM

Thanks for the correction and feedback. Definitely PF, not SS.

JC1 · 04-02-2006, 06:48 PM

Latest spreadsheet is attached.

Well, lets see. After 3 weeks of dosing, the BBA is gone, the hair algae on the driftwood has all but disappeared, hardly any green spot algae on the glass, and the problem crypt lucens have started to take off. And my fish are all very content, swimming through their new jungle. Over all, I would have to say I am very pleased.

Changes this week include a new Fluval 350 canister filter with tank long spray bar to improve water circulation and a DIY CO2 reactor which replaced an Eheim diffuser.

I have tested for iron, which is less than 0.1 ppm. I know this is a very unreliable test, but I have calibrated the test kit (Hagan) for 0.1 ppm several times, and my iron content is definitely less than 0.1 ppm. The vals are also showing slight yellowing, which would also lead me to believe I have an iron or other trace deficiency.

The only other abnormality I have is PO4, which is stubbornly staying at 2.0 ppm. I don't think I am overfeeding. I do think, though, that my weekly Vortex diatom polishing may be affecting PO4. Since I haven't been doing water changes for the last 3 weeks, I direct the Vortex discharge into the gravel, stirring up the uneaten food and stuff to be removed by the filters. I always do this on Saturday. Testing day is Sunday. Maybe disturbing the substrate the day before testing is putting more PO4 in the water column???

Based on plant uptakes, and the iron test, and vals, the doses for this week are 13 ml PF and 1.5 ml trace. I also cut back on the CO2. The powered DIY reactor really made a difference with dissolved CO2.

On a side note...the best part of the week was today when a neighbor came over for dinner, and stared at the tank for over 30 minutes, raving about how great it looked

.
Jim

Edward · 04-07-2006, 07:18 AM

Hi
Iron test kits don’t help. There is lots of confusion about trace elements, too many forms and variations. If all your plants look fine except one then most likely the trace elements are fine. Give the plant more time to grow. Some people claim dosing 2 ppm iron a day is necessary and some people dose 0.1 on direct sun light and 0.01 under very high light. I dose 0.02 ppm under 6 Wpg and no plant develops deficiencies.

Your PO4 of 2.0 ppm is doable, I wouldn’t worry about it. Yes, testing before moving gravel gives more accurate results.

Thank you
Edward

JC1 · 04-17-2006, 06:18 PM

The latest sample results are attached. I missed a sample cycle last weekend (parents in town, kids activities, the dreaded spring yard work, building a deck, etc) and continued dosing at same rate (13 ml PF, 1.5 ml trace) for a total of two weeks. Well, some GSA and BGA started to form on the glass, and a little hair algae on the vals. Otherwise, everything looks pretty good. And the crypt lucens are spreading like mad. Testing shows NO3 at 20 and CO2 a little low...probably the source of the algae. The good news is PO4 has lowered to 1.0 over the past two weeks. Lesson learned here is to make time to test every week (how hard is it to make the 20 mins or so for testing???) and make required adjustments. The nice part, though, is all anaysis are in the ball park, so recovery should be really easy.

I haven't done a water change since starting PPS, and the plants and fish seems to be very happy. My only question at this point is Ca and Mg. Without adding any more hard water (I top off with distilled water), I would expect both to go down at some point, but they remain steady. Is this "normal?" Some people I have talked to say Mg is strange...required at a higher concentration, but used very sparingly by the plants. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

Plan for the next week is 9 ml PF, 1 ml SS, 1.5 ml trace. I decided to keep trace at the same dose since everything looks pretty good and the additional dosing didn't have any bad effects.

Hope you all have a great day!
Jim