Naja002

The chart quantities are different for Without WC v. With WC. So, what is the recipe for With WCs--or is the dosage different? Double?

Thanx!

snickle

There is only one recipe and dosing for PPS-Pro. The one shown above.

There are two other version of PPS

Classic and with Water Changes

They are descibed here: http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...s-summary.html

Naja002

Hi Snickle,

Thanx. I've been reading around here and I am wanting to try the PPS System on one of my setups. It has an Auto-WC system--so I want to stick with that for now. But apparently I'm missing something:

I guess what I am missing is that I do ~10%/day=~51%/wk. I intend to continue Auto-dosing the ferts about 5 mins after the drain cycle completes (around midnight--lights are out). So, they are available in the system for ~23hrs 50mins.

The weekly dosage goals ("Maximum Weekly Levels") according to the charts are:

W/O WC:

N03-7
P04-0.7
Mg-0.7
Fe-0.07

W WC:
N03-14
P04-1.4
Mg-1.4
Fe-0.14

It looks to me like WWC calls for 2x the amount of ferts v W/OWC=1x. Based on that--either the recipe would need to be doubled or the dosage amount.

I guess the Keyword to Your response is: "other"


But things still are not making sense:

In the 2 charts (WWC and W/OWC):

The Dosage Goals are 1xW/OWC and 2x-WWC--understandable, but

The "Solutions Content for 500ml or 1/2 liter" are the same also, and

"Typical Daily Dosing" for W/OWC is only ~25% of WWC: 5ml v. 19ml on a 100g tank.

So, I add 4x as much of the same solution to achieve a 2x goal? I'm missing something.

Also, those figures are from Edward's Post dated 01/05--"Classic"?

I hope You or Edward or someone will come along and spell out what I am missing--because I am definitely missing something.

At this point, I guess that I will just continue on as planned with the PPS-PRO(?) considering that the ferts will be available for ~24hrs.--if that doesn't work, I'll just double up. If that doesn't work I'll move away from PPS.

But I would rather understand what's going on from the jump.

Any Insight?

Naja002

I found this in the FAQ:

FAQ.PPS.pdf--page 2

But I have no idea whether that applies to Pro, Classic or what? And I think that's the problem. You did a Great job on this "Newbie Guide to PPS-Pro", but otherwise its a mixed up mess of trying to figure what to do, when to do it, how and why. If there is going to be more then one system--then there should be more than one sticky breaking down each system for people to understand and choose and follow. Right now, I think the current overall presentation doesn't offer anything to the New PPS person other than confusion. If I had been following PPS for the last couple of yrs or so--then I guess I would be able to keep up. But I haven't. I am just now really getting around to looking into it. Each system and situation is different. I do daily WCs, some do weekly, others are more than happy not to do any WCs. I can see how I could follow PRO with the small daily WCs and everything would be fine. But, then again, the WWC Chart doesn't indicate that, nor does removal of ~10% of the daily dosage. so, 1x dosage does make sense. But so does 2x and the 4x recommended in the FAQ above. The FAQ are for what? PRO? Classic? The post is dated 01/05, so I have to assume that that is for the now "Classic", but how does that apply to the recipe/dosing for the PRO--I guess it doesn't. So, now I am guessing that I need to go to the WWC Chart and go by the quantities listed there. Right? Wrong?

The "Newbie Guide to PPS-Pro" is Fine--I have no issues with that. But does it fit my situation--I don't know--and that's the problem. Do I need to use the "Classic"? Again, I don't know. And I'm having trouble trying to figure it out for myself based upon the Current Overall presentation. I've spent the last few days reading the stickies and other posts. I understand a lot of what is said--but I cannot tell how to proceed in my situation. That's the problem.

Edward

Hi
Water changes are optional and have no effect on PPS-Pro dosing tactics. You can follow the guide as is. With dosing pumps I recommend to set the timers for one hour before lights go on. You didn’t tell us anything about your aquarium yet.



Thank you
Edward

Naja002

Hi Edward,

Thanx for the Clarification. My setup is different than anybody else's. I am dealing with the Fully Aquatic Acrochordus Snakes in my signature. These are extremely difficult animals to keep and have proven that way for decades now. Even Zoos with their "Experts" and vast resources have made little head-way. I have my theories why, but that's another conversation.

Basically, my system is setup as such:

Main Tanks A (40g, 0.9wpg CF 6,700K) & B (20L w/ ~10g of water, 6.5wpg? CF 9325K),

29g Aquatic Plant Filter (Hygro p & A.r. 'rosaefolia' and 'lilacinia') 2.24wpg CF 6,700K,

Emersed Plant Filter (Peace Lilies)--Sunlight through open Blind,

~40g Sump.

I have an AM Pinpoint pH Controller w/ a New Omega PHE-4202 Probe that I just use as a monitor and a Dual Inline TDS meter. Pressurized C02. My Auto-dosing system is a DIY Air-dosing system. Also, is a Denitrator system using 3x the recommended amount of Seachem's De*Nitrate--This is either not working at all or not working very well and I am dealing with them on this item. Other plants in the system include some Crypts, swords and anubias.

I have been following my own lazy-man's version of EI. I am not unhappy with it, but I want to reduce my overall TDSs--Long-term. I have started dosing leaner and I can see the positive effects already--on the Plants and TDSs. This is one of the Big selling points for me to try PPS. However, we both know that TDSs/DOCs other than Nitrate build up in a system--so on that note: I want to keep the water changes.

I use 100% RODI water for water changes. I do not reconstitute. I just retested my Gh (2.5), Kh (1.75) and N03 (0). I added 20ppm Kn03. About a month ago my specs were: Gh 2.25-2.5, Kh 1 and N03 10-15ppm. I have since added the Emersed Plant Filter (~3wks ago), and began adding KN03 recently--Traditionally, I didn't need to..... Also, I understand why my Kh is higher, so that's not an issue.


I will begin PPS-PRO in ~1 month when my current auto-dosing solution runs out. Until then I will continue to add Kn03 Manually. I haven't been adding it because N03 has been staying between 5-15ppm. Now with leaner dosing and the EPF it is dropping to Zero pretty rapidly.

I can adjust things and come here seeking help, but I like to understand the variables--preferably--Before I get involved in something.

I've learned a lot in reference to these animals in the last couple of yrs. But this isn't the average planted fish tank--my margin of error is much less. Because these snakes eat fish--the Bioload fluctuates dramatically.

I hope all of this will help You understand Why I want/need to know what's what--before I change over to PPS.

Many Thanx!

Edward

Hi
Your setup sounds very exciting. We have a common interest in lowering water toxicity and filtering impurities by plants.

Why do you use DI? Water produced by RO should be fine. What do you think about automatic, possibly continuous slow RO flow through the system instead of water changes? It could be monitored and controlled by the inline TDS probes you have. Conductivity goes up, RO turns on. This could maintain perfectly stable environment. Plants and fish react to conductivity levels more then we think.



Thank you
Edward

Naja002

Hi Edward,

Thank You, this setup definitely keeps me busy and I have learned an immense quantity of stuff over the last couple of yrs. I have had to combine Reptiles, fish and plants together in order to get this far. Its been a long and winding road!


Basically, for 2 reasons: 1) The system I purchased came with the DI, but, more importantly, 2) I like knowing that I start out with Zero TDS water. I don't really want to think or guess about exactly what is getting through, whether or not its building up or whether or not it may be harmful over the long-term. Consider it a "Control" of sorts. Currently, there are too many other variables/possibilities to worry about and sort out, so being able to "Control" something becomes much more important to me. The added cost and hassle of the DI is of minor concern to me. I am trying to sort out the captive husbandry of these animals. Many, many others have already failed--not that most of them tried very hard, but zoos have an extremely high failure rate, etc. Only a few individuals have had any real long-term success--and they are not forthcoming with their knowledge. And, Personally, I don't think most of them KNOW why they had success. Success starts with very soft, clean, acidic water--some folks are lucky enough to get that out of their tap--most aren't.


Honestly, electronics is definitely my weak point. I wouldn't have any idea how to convert my TDS meter into a "Controller" in order to accomplish what You are talking about. Great idea, but I think that overall water quality can be maintained via WCs and the Plants. Using my own variation of EI I managed to maintain TDSs @ 180-215ppm. Much higher than I would prefer. Since I have done a series of large WCs and started dosing leaner--TDSs are about 130ppm. I am hoping with PPS-PRO that I can maintain them at ~100ppm(-preferably a bit less)--Long-term.

I had considered a "Continuous Drip System", but My RO unit is 100gpd and I use it for drinking water. I don't need or want to change out 100gpd--and I like the tank getting filled for drinking water! The only way that I can see having it all work out is by adding solenoids and timers--not sure its worth the hassle or expense to me.

Right now, the AWC system is setup as follows: Quiet One 1200 pump pumps ~2.5gpm for 5 minutes=12.5g, then turns off. Kent Float valve lowers allowing the RODI water to enter the system and continues filling until the float valve shut off the supply. Once the sump supply is shut off, the RO unit begins refilling the drinking water tank. Simple enough for me!

I agree. I have been learning that the long hard way. I buy the feeder fish from the bait store. They are kept at about 45F. I have to bring home ~250 fish and then (Currently) acclimate them to hard warmer water and keep them alive and healthy in only about 22g of water! Then, eventually, acclimate them to warm 84-85F soft acidic, C02 injected water in order to offer them to the snakes. The fish also have to be able to survive long-term in the snake's tanks until its their turn to get eaten!

Again--its been a Long and Winding Road. But I'm getting there.

Naja002

Hi Edward,

Hoping You can answer a question for me on the PPS-PRO dosing:

My setup is line out above. Traditionally, I have been dosing for the entire system volume (~120g). I am wondering how to proceed with the PPS-PRO dosing quantity though.

I have a 29g APF that goes from Heavily Planted to medium based upon trimming, the 20L (Main Tank B) has about 10g of water--and at this point would be considered lightly to medium planted, the EPF holds about 7g of water and has 7--4" pots of Young Peace Lilies in aquarium gravel (they are growing), Mani Tank A is about 40g with only 3 'tropica' swords and 1 Sm. Red Flame Sword (very low-light: ~0.9wpg).

Should I proceed dosing for the full 120g (12ml each) or some fraction there of--based more upon the plant quantity?

In the end, I will watch my TDSs and try to "Grow the Plants", but what would be a better starting point?

Many Thanx! Looking forward to getting this started!

Edward

Hi
Your setup is atypical. What if you look at the plant mass as a whole and imagine how large aquarium would have to be to host it. Maybe you will get the same volume. Once decided, test NO3 and PO4 and start dosing. Every week test again to see progress. Without fertilizer levels will go up. With fertilizer levels will go down. With too much fertilizer levels will slowly start accumulating. Plants need about two months to adjust.



Thank you
Edward