Jason Baliban

Ok, this thread will tie in with this thread...
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...-very-low.html

I am finishing up some experimentation that should leave me with some more solid information in a few weeks. At that time, i will add some of my thoughts to the mentioned thread.

So far, this is some of the history of my quest and how PPS pro fits into it currently.

History

Over the last year, i have been approaching this hobby from a very controlled perspective. My first effort in doing this was to study PPS classic very closely. The basic premise behind PPS is to give your plants the nutrients they need, but do it in a way that was easily controlled and modified as the needs of your tank changed from week to week.

I sort of adopted this approach and mixed up precise solutions for each of my macro nutrients. Mind you, this was actually a more complicated approach then what PPS intends.

My goal was to maintain a level of nutrients with precise dosing. I targeted 30ppm of CO2, 10-20ppm of NO3, 20-30ppm of K, and 1-2ppm of PO4. I dosed daily and tested often to reach a fairly solid level of nutrients.

At that point in time, most of my aquariums were scaped. Maintaining higher levels of nutrients still produced fast growth. I had to slow the growth. I accomplished this by limiting the amount of light over the tank. I did this by not changing the intensity, but rather the duration of lighting. I was running some tanks as low as 7 hours of lighting a day. This worked for me for about 6 months, but I was still perplexed with how many people in the hobby were running their tanks with very low levels of everything…..light, co2, nutrients…..

I decided to try a more radical experiment with a freshly set up tank. I studied the parameters of many of amano’s tanks and attempted to have success with similar parameters.

First was co2. I couldn’t believe how low his co2 levels were, but I targeted similar levels for my experiment. I ended up at roughly 8-12ppm of co2.

Next were my nutrients. I targeted about 1-5ppm of N, .5ppm of P, and 5-10ppm of K.

Next, lighting. Well, I didn’t see anything over powering about my lights, so I just set the timers to 10 hours a day.

Over the next 3 months I watched my levels closely…..

What I found

My plants grew just as healthy, and perhaps even more healthy. I know my fish were happy with the low levels of nutrients and co2. I achieve full growth at a much slower rate. This was great for aquascapes. And as a positive side effect, my fight with GSA was FINALLY long gone.

Along came PPS Pro

PPS Pro is almost exactly what I was targeting except I was dosing individually. In a dark lab somewhere Edward determined the ratios of each nutrient and put them all together in one solution. Perhaps the most powerful thing about the new method is the timing of dosing? That is yet to be determined.

I mixed up the PPS solution and started…..

I have been dosing PPS Pro for about a month and a half now. So far my results have been very positive.

Here are some tips:

Testing?

Everyone loves the phrase “No testing required”, but lets be realistic here. Even if we were just keeping fish, we would need to test to some degree. Every hobby has its tools and steps. Testing is an important part of our hobby. Even if you never have a problem, understanding your water and your test kits will help you understand why you are NOT having a problem and help you address things when you DO have a problem.

CO2?

Edward recommends constant co2 (do not turn off at night).

Then of course there is the amano camp. Turn of co2 at night and aerate your water.

My take on this…. I turn my co2 off at night. I don’t worry about ph swings because I really use very little co2. Will I change this…..most certainly. I very often change something to see the effects. I am like all of us….looking for the perfect growth. The hardest part is to have the patience to change one thing and wait weeks to see the effects.

I recommend that beginners target 15ppm of co2 and keep it steady night and day

Pressurized vs DIY?

There is no question for me. Pressurized!!! If you think you cant afford it, then buy less light, run your lights less for lower electricity bill, buy a smaller tank, save a dollar a day for three months.

How to deal with tap water issues – high N or P?

Do smaller water changes. Instead of 50%, do 30%. PPS – Pro allows this because of limited nutrient build up. Also, smaller water changes prevent your tap from making drastic changes in your aquarium. My first mistake was to adjust the formula of PPS- Pro to handle the nutrients in my tap. If your tap water is off quite a bit, do smaller water changes.

Nutrient deficiancies?

Yes, PPS-Pro is a lighter system of dosing. It was developed with the aquascaper in mind. It was designed for slower more controlled growth. I found that the initial recommended dosing of 1ml per 10 gallons to be a pretty good start, however, you will find that you may need to add some more depending on your light intensity and your plant mass. My one tank is growing fantastic with the recommended dosing, my other tank has some stronger light and higher plant mass. I had to cut my light a bit and up my dosing a few ml…..so far so good.

How to deal with needing more nutrients?

You could always increase your dosing. Or decrease your lighting. The solution is balanced and the idea of dosing in the morning really prevents you from getting into trouble quick, but you should always be mindful of your plants conditions and the parameters of your water.

Conclusion

I am always moving things around in my travels in this hobby. So far, PPS-Pro has been the closest thing to great I have found in a system for aquascapers. I would imagine it is very close to the ADA step method, but Edward gives us all the numbers and the explanation so we can learn and adapt.

Please feel free to ask any questions. I hope this has helped at least one person

jB

Bert H

Thank you for posting your observations, Jason. I must admit that I am becoming a convert to PPS-Pro after having switched my 10 gal over about 2 months ago, and currently switching over one of my two 50's (second will soon be switched).

I have kept my CO2 around 30ppm, and cut water changes down to once every 3 weeks or so.

I have been meaning to keep some sort of table to see how NO3 and PO4 levels vary in that time frame, but until recently haven't had the time to do it right. I had also considered increasing the PO4 levels in the stock solution of macros, but Edward talked me out of it. My thought had been to keep gsa under control, and pop some of the reds out a little more. That's the only difference I have seen between my modified EI which I was using before and PPS-Pro - that plants like L. aromatica, don't show quite as much red as they did prior. Do you have any observations on that?

Are you still doing weekly water changes?

snickle

Jason,

Good write up. I am glad it is working for you.

Left C

Ditto jB on the excellent write up.

Edwards system is working extremely well with my "test drive" tank. My Barclaya longifolia is sensitive to low potassium levels. It gets pinholes well before the other plants. I've learned to add a little extra potassium sulfate that's in a separate solution to help with this minor problem.

On the other hand, I may be able to turn the lighting down some and lower the CO2 level with the pressurized system. This may be a solution about needing to add extra potassium that I haven't tried yet.

Overall, I think Edwards PPS-Pro is an outstanding "one size fits all" approach to aquatic fert methodology!

Left C

ezeke1

Awesome writeup Jason! I'm about to start dosing PPS-Pro and your testing is a solid info. I really like the minimalist approach to maintaining an aquarium - just dose what is needed and given that I do alot of water changes, PPS-Pro will allow me to make adjustments as my tank grows.

Edward

Thank you Jason!
As always, your reports are very informative and helpful.


Thank you again
Edward

Edward

Yes, many plants we regard as ‘red’ are not really red unless chemically stressed. What I found is that these plants can still become red, very red and much larger, healthier and nicer looking under stronger light intensities. I don’t believe there is such a thing as too much light in a planted aquarium. We no longer have to be afraid to use the strongest lighting systems available.



Thank you
Edward

Edward

Thank you Left C!
It is a simple system and it works. We can now help new people interested in staring this exciting hobby. The New To Planted Aquariums forum is the right place to start.



Thank you
Edward

zig

I am now also a convert.

I just thought I would give my report and observations as well because I have been following everyone else's here with interest since I first started dosing PPS Pro.

Up to this I have run highlight tanks based on EI principles, and will readily admit I have had good success with that method, but I wanted to try something different mainly because of the water change regime associated with it. When I got busy working this aspect would get neglected and I wanted something a bit more forgiving. I also found I was wiping down the glass weekly when running EI even when I was doing weekly 50% water changes. I had no major problems with algae just an annoying build up on the glass (not GDA or GSA). Also I found that if I missed a water change the water quality (visually) would reduce dramatically over the coming week.

I was fascinated by the lean dosing associated with PPS Pro and this is why I wanted to try it, at first I was circumspect and wasn't sure if I would hit problems quite quickly with deficiency's with such a lean dosing regime, but I am happy to report this has not been the case, overall I am very pleased with the results even though its still early days I am confident it will work long term on my tanks.

I am running two tanks atm, a 15g @ 4WPG and a 40g @ 3WPG, both are heavily planted although the 40 gallon is only up and running for 2 weeks now (new scape, new dosing regime) the 15g has been setup from scratch about 6-7 weeks ago and dosed with PPS Pro from the start. both tanks are doing very well indeed, nice growth, no problems with algae except for some diatoms in the 15g, which one would expect from a new setup, no build up on the glass and the water looks much cleaner even with no water changes for a couple of weeks. I would say the water is much cleaner looking overall over a longer period running PPS Pro.

The 15g is fully stocked with a small shoal of fish (only last week) and the 40g has a low fish stock level for now. Local tap water quality around these parts would be good, 0 nitrate and 0 phosphate in the tapwater, water is soft with KH 1, GH 2, water is drinkable direct from the tap, anyway my point is that what's added to these tanks up to now has come mainly from the PPS Pro stock solutions.

Overall a good result for me so far. I am just dosing at the recommended doses up to now, I do not feel I need to dose any more for the moment. In the 15g I dose Tropica plant nutrition as trace at the dose recommended on the instructions (5ml per 50l per week, tank is 54l I dose 5ml per week, 5x1ml) in the 40g I dose CSM+B using Edwards formula. CO2 I run at about 20ppm in both tanks (a convenient figure for me to reach no other reason I run it this high) I switch off CO2 each night via a solenoid and start it up again 2 hours before lights on, so far this is working well.

Thats it really, I just thought I would add to the thread as I was initially encouraged by others doing the same elsewhere in this section of the forum. All I can say is that its definitely working for me with good results (pics in the aquascaping section). The water change regime suits me much better, growth is good, water quality is good, both tanks pearl nicely, to me it looks like a winner of a dosing formula and I am glad I have tried it, and as Edward would say.........Thank you (to Edward that is)

Jason Baliban

Bert - I actually made the mistake of adjusting my solution for my tap. I am now starved of nitrogen and have to add a little extra. To alieviate this, just do less of a water change. I am currently doing 30% a week and dont plan to do any more or less then that. It is hard for me to determine my NPK levels in each tank because of substrate. One tank has AS and the other has root tabs (experiment, more to come on this as well). I have measured my non AS tank and i am finding that my N is low.....very low...because of my mixing mistake. I will fix this in the coming days with a new solution.

As for color, i never really worried about that. I figure if its a red plant, it will be red. if it has some highlights, then cool. I know lots of people try to achieve that, but it was never a focus for me.

Left C - Yes, i agree with you on K, i am actually thinking of making up an extra solution for just K. Just to get some more into the tank. I have notices some slight yellowing of older leaves....but again, any change will bring on some problems, so i am not ready to say pps pro requires suplimented K. Time will have to tell on this.

Edward -

zig - im jealous of your tap Also, it seems that EI's biggest downfall is GSA. It seems much more prevelant in that system then the others.

jB