thread algae with PPS-pro

[JDowns]

Originally Posted by Edward

About CO2 levels, sure you can have 30 ppm of CO2, but it is not necessary and not easy to maintain. Plants grow taller and weaker and require often trimming. Also fish may become stressed.

Could you elaborate on this?

Are you stating that CO2 at 30ppm grows weaker and taller plants?

Maybe reading all four parts of this study http://192.38.244.204/article.asp?ty...aristic&id=142 will shed some light on why that statement makes no sense in its generalized form.

[Edward]

Check this thread: Oxygen blocking CO2 fixation

[JDowns]

Originally Posted by Edward

Check this thread: Oxygen blocking CO2 fixation

??

So your taking from Vivienne Baillie Gerritsen study on protiens in lettuce which no where states a specific ppm level for CO2 in aquatic plants or for lettuce itself, and deriving from that, that 30ppm of CO2 for aquatic plants grows weaker and taller plants?

Tropica's study was specific on aquatic plants and showed levels of 25 - 40 ppm could be beneficial.

From Tropica's CO2 and light stimulate the growth: Based on our experiments, we suggest commencing CO2 addition before any other action is taken! We believe that even at very modest light intensities you will experience a conspicuous change in plant performance in your aquarium. The exact amount CO2 may always be discussed but if you do not have very sensitive fishes in your fish stock, concentrations from 25 and up to 50 mg/l will only improve plant growth. You will probably see that plants, which were barely able to survive before now, thrive in the presence of CO2.

Can you show me a study that shows that 30ppm concentrations grows aquatic plants weaker? Really no use saying taller at this point, plants do grow upwards after all.

And since you linked to it. Can you also provide a study to support this.

Originally Posted by Edward

High CO2 makes plants vulnerable to algae infestation. This is why we see so many posts about algae in high CO2 aquariums.[/url]

This seems to be a very large leap in reasoning. If this is the case then why do we see so many scapes grown at high CO2 levels that are algae free?

[Edward]

Hi
Why not take a lettuce research and apply it to other plants? Don’t we research monkeys to help humans?

Plants grown at high CO2 levels lose ability to continue utilize carbon when CO2 levels go low. This contributes to unhealthy plant mass leaking NH4 creating algae blooms. On the other hand, plants grown in low to moderate CO2 levels have the mechanism to process carbon at any level and remain in good health.

What defines beneficial or improvement in terms of plant growth anyway? Grow time, tallness? Or grow dense shapes and resist algae? Depends on who we ask, fast farming for business or aquascaping.

For example when I grow Cabomba caroliniana in very low CO2, internodes grow only few millimeters long, and if I increase CO2 levels to very high, internodes grow up to 100 millimeters long. The rest of the plant remains the same size.


So, we can argue this either way depending on what is the goal.



Edward

[JDowns]

Originally Posted by Edward

Hi
Why not take a lettuce research and apply it to other plants? Don’t we research monkeys to help humans?

Plants grown at high CO2 levels lose ability to continue utilize carbon when CO2 levels go low. This contributes to unhealthy plant mass leaking NH4 creating algae blooms. On the other hand, plants grown in low to moderate CO2 levels have the mechanism to process carbon at any level and remain in good health.

What defines beneficial or improvement in terms of plant growth anyway? Grow time, tallness? Or grow dense shapes and resist algae? Depends on who we ask, fast farming for business or aquascaping.

For example when I grow Cabomba caroliniana in very low CO2, internodes grow only few millimeters long, and if I increase CO2 levels to very high, internodes grow up to 100 millimeters long. The rest of the plant remains the same size.


So, we can argue this either way depending on what is the goal.



Edward

Now we are getting somewhere .

This I can agree with.

Its not the level of CO2 that grows weak plants but fluctuations in CO2.

Yes plants grown at high levels of CO2 produce less Rubisco. A decrease in the concentration of CO2 and the plant is now starving for CO2 and now needs to direct its resources into the production of more Rubisco. If high levels are maintained this does not dictate "weak" growth though.

Yes maintaining higher levels may be more difficult. But it depends on one's goals.

CO2 fluctuations can be problematic at any levels. What happens when a system grows in creating more mass and more "mouths to feed" and a decrease in circulation, if we don't then compensate and add more CO2?

I wasn't trying to nitpick but looking for a better explanation rather than a generalized statement.

[helgymatt]

Very interesting points made here. In fact, I have had CO2 fluctuations in my tank in the past week and now I have ALGAE. Not bad, but not making me happy. Also, I realized my filter was not working for I don't know how long, then I realized my crappy milwaukee needle valve was giving me MUCH lower drops per second than it was before (any my drop checker was no longer a nice green). I got my CO2 cranked back up and I'll see what happens in the next few weeks.