wkndracer trying to start with PPS classic - PPS Analysis and Feedback

wkndracer · 05-17-2009, 03:31 PM

PPS Analysis, Feedback and Assistance- Please read by Art_Giacosa
I read this first prior to posting so lets see how bad I can mess this up. My username starts the tittle line and I'm going from there.
I downloaded, printed and repeatedly read Edwards articles under "Introducing the PPS-Classic"
I made notes and started formulating a plan to switch from EI to PPS.
All was well until reading the following: http://ca.geocities.com/pps@rogers.com/FAQ.PPS.doc
From page #1
"How many solutions do I need?
The program needs four solutions, the SS, PF, Mg and TE.

How do I make the solutions?
Find four 500ml bottles and mix the following solutions."
What happened to the Nitrate Free solution? And don't I need a fifth bottle?

From page #2
"Test once your NO3 & PO4. Dose the same amount every day for one week. Then test your NO3 & PO4. Correct your SS and PF solution dosing amount."
Selected my tank size from the references listed.
"( 75 gall / 300 liter ) 4 ml SS, 8 ml PF, 1 ml Mg, 1 ml TE"
Am I understanding to dose BOTH SS and PF solutions?

N,P,K Relationship Volume 2, Issue 1, page 2, paragraph 3, solution substitutions.
http://ca.geocities.com/pps@rogers.c....Potassium.pdf

This states if imbalances exist to substitute for the SS solution with either the NF or PF solutions and dose the same mL as dosed with the SS solution.

I have problems understanding as the information seems to conflict with other sections and would really like some help.

wkndracer · 05-19-2009, 05:20 AM

27 people have viewed this post in 36 hrs. w/o reply, so have I posted stupid stumbling points on the listed directions and overview information?

The fact that the NF solution is omitted from several of the Excel spread sheets and the FAQ listing still concerns me.

kimcadmus · 05-19-2009, 06:19 AM

I certainly didn't think your post was stumbling. I read it and realized I was of no help unless I read up on Classic again as it has been some time. I elected to use PPS-Pro as there were only two solutions. I rarely have to test (maybe once per month) as I watch the inhabitants, flora and fauna. I do weekly water changes with RO/tap and set the KH GH.

Good luck, I'm sure someone more knowledgeable with pick this up.

wkndracer · 05-19-2009, 11:14 AM

I don't think reading up on it is going to help me. (At least not the sticky threads) But be the problem. It appears like the documents conflict with each other regarding the NF solution and starting dose guidelines. I currently have four tanks set up and only two are similar. Another larger (110g) and three smaller tanks are lurking in the wings soon to be filled. Until I gain more experience ‘reading’ the different plants testing from time to time will allow me to trend the tanks. I’m really looking forward to maintaining good plant growth and eliminating the huge weekly WC cycle of resetting the tanks. To validate any process I have to first grasp the basics then build on the experience.

My bio loads will I think be managed better by the 3 solution system.

wkndracer · 05-23-2009, 06:52 AM

Edward has been inactive since 1/4/09 with regards to any new posts I can find. I PM'd when posting the question on NF, SS, PF solutions and still remain without answer. Has PPS classic use been abandoned? To convert to PPS I need to resolve this and need assistance. String search's do not reveal an answer and hours if not days have been lost searching. FRUSTRATED!

The detailed guidelines fully explain a process that is contradicted by the summary page and Excel materials.
(IF I'm understanding correctly)

Can a mod or member not assist with this?

hooha · 05-23-2009, 11:40 PM

I don't use the PPS system but I can try to help.....

If the hangup is whether or not you need to make the NF solution, the answer is no, unless you need to add it with your testing

Dose both the SS and PF solutions as the calculators suggest, and change the dosing based on your testing results......that's the easiest way to start with the PPS classic.

hope that helps

wkndracer · 05-24-2009, 06:38 AM

ahhh, a response thank you hooha,
I speculated on doing this but stopped short of action because Edwards directions seemed very well defined until reading the FAQ page. So based on your response and the Excel spread sheets normal dosing includes two macro solutions? Seemed simple enough but my track record of turning wrong not right can’t be ignored. LOL If there’s four correct answers or four hundred with only one wrong choice I have a true knack.
This is my stumbling block in the PPS instruction. With regard to N,P,K Relationship Volume 2, Issue 1, page 2, paragraph 3, solution substitutions. The correct application would be if dosing the following from the Excel and tank size guidelines for a 75g tank; 4 ml SS, 8 ml PF, 1 ml Mg, 1 ml TE. After a week testing reveals a rise in NO3 then substitute 4mL of NF solution for the SS and continue dosing 8mL PF? The PF is still loaded with NO3. Also this application reads backward as written when compared to Edward’s example. In reading through the materials it made sense to me until adding the second macro formula in the FAQ and Excels.
Quote
Example: If you see that nitrates are at excessively high levels than substitute SS solution for NF solution. If you see that phosphates are at excessive levels than substitute SS solution for PF solution. The number of ml used should remain the same as the SS solution being dosed prior to switching to the PF or NF solutions. The PF or NF solution should be continued until NO3 and PO4 ratios return to normal levels

Selecting PPS over the newer PPS pro was based on my tank history’s of rising nitrate levels. Large fish with moderate to high feeding levels so controlling NO3 and reducing water changes is the overall goal.

hooha · 05-24-2009, 08:26 AM

If you play around with the calculator, you can see the recommended changes for the solution based on nitrate and phosphate levels. Without knowing exact starting and retesting levels it's hard to give a concrete answer.

You can look at it this way - the SS solution is your main 'phosphate' dose, your PF solution is your main nitrate dose without affecting phosphate levels.

If your phosphate levels are 'spot on' and nitrates are high, then you are recommended based on the calculator to decrease the PF solution. If your Phosphate and Nitrate levels are off, then you can expect a recommended change in both PF and SS solutions. If Phosphate leves are quite low and Nitrate levels are quite high, despite a low dose/not dosing the PF solution, then you can expect to need the NF solution at that time.

If you think about what solutions contain which nutrients, you can understand the changes recommended by the calculator easier.

That's what I can figure out without exact numbers, hopefully that makes more sense to you.....it makes it much easier to make recommendations and explain them if specific numbers are given (i.e. you try it out

)

wkndracer · 05-24-2009, 08:56 AM

After reading for approximately 3 weeks I'm just going for it.
Mixed solutions today for use starting tomorrow. Using this system on my matching 75g CO2 injected tanks.
This first run will be with Rex Grigg's grumpy mix 40 grams and Seachem Equilibrium 96 grams (ran out of Grumpy"s) setting the right tank to 9dGH. Tank will have Briggs snails in it along with MTS.
Adjustment to KH level has yet to be made and currently is 4dKH set with NaHC03. Over the next week I'll be raising to 8dKH making the water less acidic for the snails.
Current parameters today are based on API tests and information from Rex Grigg's site.
75R = 4dKH, 9dGH, NO3 10ppm, PO4 1.18ppm (based on .25ppm tested + KH2PO4 added for .93ppm), Fe .6ppm, K2SO4 14.26ppm (based on 9 grams added), Mg and Ca have yet to be determined as I haven't used the Nutrafin test kit yet.

75L = 6dGH, 3dKH, PO4 1.0ppm (tested), NO3 20ppm, K2SO4 14.26ppm (again based on 9 grams added), Fe .9ppm dosed 30 minutes prior to photo period.

Fe supplementation ends today with PPS dosing starting tomorrow.
Both tanks are lit by Current T5 HO 4x54w - 2x10000, 2xplant grow bulbs and are split between the timers one each on both. One bank on for 8 hrs. both for 7 hrs.
CO2 injection is American Marine controlled and using Rex style down flow reactors targeting 30ppm via drop checker.

hooha · 05-24-2009, 09:04 AM

what is your water supply's normal GH and KH? I'm all for keeping it simple myself - unless the hardness values are way off in the water supply, just use the water supply levels unless there are issues. Otherwise every water change you have to figure out and add more supplements, as well as account for water evaporation, etc.....