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Old 04-25-2012, 03:23 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default AquaVitro Questions

I picked up a couple of bottles of AquaVitro Envy and Propel a few weeks ago, and have been dosing one of my aquariums with these products, in place of the usual Flourish and Flourish Iron. I have seen good results, but I can't quantify whether I really notice a difference between the normal Flourish brand.

I have two questions:

1. What's the difference between Flourish Iron and Propel? The MSDS list the exact same ingredients and even the marketing speak is very similar. Is Propel just Flourish Iron rebottled/rebranded?

2. Does Envy provide trace minerals like Mg, Fe, B, Ca, etc? If so, why are they not listed under the guaranteed analysis? In the marketing speak, it does say that the product is made from chlorella which contains many of these things, but it would be nice to know exactly what it does provide, and how that compares to what Flourish provides.

Thanks for your responses!

-Kris
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Old 04-26-2012, 12:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: AquaVitro Questions

Thanks for the post and for purchasing Envy and Propel!

I will answer your questions as they were asked for sake of clarity:

1. Flourish Iron and Propel are different and I can assure you that Propel is not Flourish Iron re-bottled. Though they are the same concentration, the Propel has 2 different types of iron in it vs only 1 in Flourish Iron. Both Propel and Flourish Iron contain the preferred form, which is the ferrous gluconate form of iron. This means that the plants will immediately uptake the iron into their cells, without expending any energy. In addition to the ferrous iron, Propel also contains a time released iron that is slowly released over time, continuously giving the plants the iron that is required for growth. The Propel also contains a reducing agent that will assist in converting any existing ferric iron (previously used product or in the substrate) into the preferred form of Ferrous iron.

2. This is what the description on the website states in regards to Envy:

"Chlorella is a unique algae that grows in fresh water. It is extremely high in enzymes, vitamins and minerals, including the full vitamin-B Complex. It is over-flowing with unsaturated fatty acids, amino acids, and proteins. There are also vitamins found in Chlorella including: Vitamin C, pro-vitamin A (B-carotene), thiamine (B1), riboflavin (B2), pyridoxine (B6), niacin, pantothenic acid, folic acid, Vitamin B12, biotin, choline, Vitamin K, lipoic acid, and inositol. Minerals in Chlorella include: phosphorus, calcium, zinc, iodine, magnesium, iron, and copper. It contains a higher level of amino acids than spirulina and is FDA approved for use with ornamental fish."

We have combined the benefits of Flourish and Flourish Trace into one product, Envy. We would certainly not simply re-bottle any of our products, as they all are specifically designed to be used in the aquarium and all play different roles for the environment and inhabitants.

I hope this clears up any confusion, but if you have further questions, please let us know!
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Old 04-27-2012, 05:42 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: AquaVitro Questions

Thanks for this clarification! My only suggestion would be to do a better job on the product labeling and websites for these products. I'm a big fan of Seachem products and the company itself for its involvement in the hobby. (The fact that you answer questions here is a big deal -- thank you) I'm always looking for ways to improve my plant growth, and really like the fact that AquaVitro is limited to LFS sales, which supports the local stores. (You might want to search on Amazon.com though, and crack down on a few folks.)

All of this said, I want to know what differentiates one product from another. The naming/packaging seems like it's to compete with ADA and other "premium" brands, but we as hobbyists and DIYers want to know exactly what we're dosing. Some of those other products sometimes seem like snakeoil, and that's exactly why I've always leaned toward the Seachem Flourish line. Please don't abandon your up-front, clear, bottling, labeling, and marketing that's made you great for years.

Thanks for your clarification -- I will continue using the AquaVitro line!
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Old 04-27-2012, 11:59 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: AquaVitro Questions

You are very welcome!

We actually have a program specifically designed to "takedown" people that are selling aquavitro online. It is a constant battle, but we have been successful in removing aquavitro from over 100 online vendors and that number continues to grow!

I'm glad that I was able to clarify the differences between the products for you and that you will continue to use them! If you have any further questions, don't hesitate to ask!
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Old 05-23-2012, 09:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: AquaVitro Questions

I also have a few questions regarding the new line of ferts.

1. Does Envy also contain Manganese?

2. Is it okay to mix Propel and Envy together for use with an autodosing system?

3. What is the reason for using potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) and not potassium carbonate (K2CO3) in the Carbonate product? I've been debating which one to use for RO reconstitution and am curious why Seachem chose the former.

I'll be trying the Mineralize product soon. I like the idea of not adding so many sulfates as with the older Equillibrium product.
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Old 05-23-2012, 12:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: AquaVitro Questions

Hello AaronT,

Thanks for your questions.

1) envy does not contain any manganese.

2) I wouldn't recommend mixing propel and envy together, as propel contains a reducing agent that may reduce some of the components of envy. They can, however, be dosed closely together; we just would not recommend mixing them in the same dosing bottle.

3) We went with potassium bicarbonate instead of potassium carbonate so that the product would not have an impact upon pH. Potassium bicarb has a pH of around 8.2, while potassium carbonate has a pH closer to 11.5.

I think that mineralize will probe to be one of the more popular products in this line, as we have had a huge demand to put out a liquid GH product. We hope you will be satisfied with the products!
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: AquaVitro Questions

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Originally Posted by Seachem View Post
Hello AaronT,

Thanks for your questions.

1) envy does not contain any manganese.

2) I wouldn't recommend mixing propel and envy together, as propel contains a reducing agent that may reduce some of the components of envy. They can, however, be dosed closely together; we just would not recommend mixing them in the same dosing bottle.

3) We went with potassium bicarbonate instead of potassium carbonate so that the product would not have an impact upon pH. Potassium bicarb has a pH of around 8.2, while potassium carbonate has a pH closer to 11.5.

I think that mineralize will probe to be one of the more popular products in this line, as we have had a huge demand to put out a liquid GH product. We hope you will be satisfied with the products!
Thanks for the responses. I'm glad I asked about mixing the two traces together.

Why are manganese and boron both absent from the Aquavitro lineup?

Does the calcium gluconate in the Mineralize add some carbon as well? It would seem it does given its chemical formula. Also, what ratio of Ca:Mg does it add? It would seem not much Ca is added if the Ca source is just calcium gluconate?

Last edited by AaronT; 05-24-2012 at 06:39 PM..
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Old 05-25-2012, 02:38 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: AquaVitro Questions

To follow up a little bit on Aaron's question about manganese and boron: The Aquavitro lineup is intended to be used solely by itself to provide sufficient and sustainable nutrition for plants, right? In other words, there's no reason to dose the Flourish line if we're dosing the AquaVitro line, correct?
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Old 05-25-2012, 12:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: AquaVitro Questions

There is a source of boron from boric acid, and mineralize contains some manganese. Because of the chlorella base in envy, as well as the dosing structure, we moved some ingredients around. Unlike Flourish, which contains some organic components which could build up if dosed too frequently, this is not the case with envy. Technically, envy can be dosed daily without risk of excess organics.

As far as mineralize is concerned, yes, the calcium gluconate in mineralize does add some carbon. Though we cannot provide the exact Ca:Mg ratio due to proprietary reasons, I can tell you that we did months worth of testing to determine the most appropriate ratio, so that we could maximize the benefits. The calcium and magnesium sources are not strictly calcium and magnesium gluconate; the product also provides ionic sources of calcium and magnesium.

krisw, the aquavitro line is meant to be used solely, and not necessarily in conjunction with Flourish. Using aquavitro solely will provide your plants with everything that they will need.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: AquaVitro Questions

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Originally Posted by Seachem View Post
There is a source of boron from boric acid, and mineralize contains some manganese. Because of the chlorella base in envy, as well as the dosing structure, we moved some ingredients around. Unlike Flourish, which contains some organic components which could build up if dosed too frequently, this is not the case with envy. Technically, envy can be dosed daily without risk of excess organics.

As far as mineralize is concerned, yes, the calcium gluconate in mineralize does add some carbon. Though we cannot provide the exact Ca:Mg ratio due to proprietary reasons, I can tell you that we did months worth of testing to determine the most appropriate ratio, so that we could maximize the benefits. The calcium and magnesium sources are not strictly calcium and magnesium gluconate; the product also provides ionic sources of calcium and magnesium.

krisw, the aquavitro line is meant to be used solely, and not necessarily in conjunction with Flourish. Using aquavitro solely will provide your plants with everything that they will need.
Thanks seachem for the response. I hope my inquiries don't sound accusatory and I certainly understand you needing to walk the line of informational and giving up proprietary secrets.

It just seemed odd that boron and manganese weren't listed in any of the products, yet they are known necessary micronutrients.

I really like the idea of not having excess build-up of organic compounds.

One last question, well maybe not, but one more for now. Kris and I as you may have noticed live near each other and have been trying to get the larger 2 liter sizes, but the store we go to says his distributor doesn't have them listed yet. Are they still in the works or should they be available?

I picked up my Mineralize today. I'm excited to try it out.

Last edited by AaronT; 05-25-2012 at 02:57 PM..
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