niko

It took a while to find this pdf document on the www.organicsa.co.za web site.

For those who may not know Amano uses Penac W.

--Nikolay

pineapple

Hi, Nikolay,

In the recent thread on the Amano tank stats I queried Penac but no takers. Seems that it is not in use in the USA. It's easy to talk plants because one prunes, plants, replants them day-by-day. But when it comes to substrate issues such as Penac in the substrate the once-a-year-maybe dealing with substrate issue is not at the top of the mind. Once it is in there, it's in there and there is not a lot one can do about it without a complete tear-down.

Anyway, Penac, that link was the best that I have found (a South African link I think). I was wondering where to get some Penac in the USA. I would like to give it a shot.

Andrew Cribb

ShaneSmith

I want to try it to, what is this stuff? The website didn't help at all and i cant read the pdf file until after work.

Robert Hudson

THe PDF file didn't work for me, but hunting thru every page of their WEB site, I don't see a clear application for aquatic plants, a clear definition of what it is or what it does. On this page:

http://www.organicsa.co.za/Knowledge...Plants6-99.htm

it says it is available in two base forms, 1 is calcium carbonate, 98%, and the other is Molasses! I do not think I would want large amounts of either in my substrate. It's primary use seems to be to make the plants more disease resistant and resistant to bugs without pesticides. It also mentions larger root growth, but no where does it talk about using with aquatic plants.

Their Penac water product does mention aquariums, but it is to treat the water and somehow cut back algae, not to benefit plant growth. The same product is used as a sewage treatment. Their "plant" Penac is what contains calcium carbonate and is a soil treatment. As far as I could tell, Penac W (water) is a liquid for treating water quality. Where do you see an application for us?

MiamiAG

Folks,

I missed the comment on the Amano stats thread.

The Penac line is used by Amano and many people in Japan. As you may have learned, it is made in Germany and also popular their.

It is not a substrate amendment in the sense that we think. It is meant to correct the biorythm of the aquarium through the use of certain powders and wood sticks. This is thought to increase the health of plants and the overall aquarium.

We never imported the line because we thought nobody in the US would buy into it. Snake oil comments would run rampant as we are not accustomed to such things here.

Anyway, it is certainly NOT available here. However, the Aqua-Equalizer may be something similar that some reef hobbyists are using.

jppurchase

[quote=Art_Giacosa]Folks,

It is not a substrate amendment in the sense that we think. It is meant to correct the biorythm of the aquarium through the use of certain powders and wood sticks. This is thought to increase the health of plants and the overall aquarium.

We never imported the line because we thought nobody in the US would buy into it. Snake oil comments would run rampant as we are not accustomed to such things here.

Art,

Get ready for the SNAKE OIL comment! While I don't claim to understand the intricacies Quantum Physics, I know a line when I hear one. There isn't a single verifiable iota of real scientific proof that this stuff works. Tranferring vibrational energy indeed. Better to stand by your aquarium with a tuning fork and humm "America The Beautiful".

A truckload of cow manure will do more to improve garden soil than all the Penac products in the world.

James Purchase
Toronto

jppurchase

After a little digging and the judicious use of Babel-Fish to translate from French to English, I've discovered that there are a lot of Plocher products designed for use in aquariums.

The "hardware" part of the System is called Plocher WasserKat, and is supposed to be attached to the incoming water pipe in your home (or perhaps onto the tubing of a canister filter). This is supposed to transfer some type of energy to the water.

Is an apparatus which one fixes, without modifying it, on a water pipeline (food PVC quality tube, for example). It has information corresponding to a spring water. Its lifespan is, theoretically, unlimited.

There are 2 sizes, one twice as expensive as the other (in the neighbourhood of $350.00 for the small and $750 for the large). The large would handle a whole house.

The "software" section of the system is where it gets interesting. What follows is a complete list of all of the Plocher products aimed at aquarists:

hq 5012 Plocher fresh water (CaCo3)
Cleared up water, optimizes the operation of the aquariums
Price: 14.90 € Gross weight: 50

hq 5031 Plocher fresh water 200g (silica)
Cleared up water, optimizes the operation of the aquariums
Price: 67.50 € Gross weight: 220

While I'm not 100% certain, I also found reference to the following 3 products which might either be the same as the aobve or very similar:

1. Plocher fresh water

The support is quartz powder (there is also one on support carbonates calcium). Information contained makes it possible to naturally stimulate the vital processes of the aerobic bacteria, fish, the plants.

4. Plocher W "Basins of gardens - reduction of turbidity and the silting"
5. Plocher W "Basins of gardens - general stabilization and reduction of the algae" :

Information is also made available on quartz powder. The joint use of these two new specialities allows an improvement even more targeted aquatic environment. The general stabilization of water is remarkable, as well in a basin of garden as in a fresh water aquarium. The various tests which we carried out gave us whole satisfaction.

hq 5011 Stick fresh water
Cleared up water, optimizes the operation of the aquariums
Price: 6.50 € Gross weight: 10

Now, these are interesting. Designed to be inserted into the substrate of an aquarium.

Each stick is composed of terra cotta which surrounds a material carrier data (a reduced model, to some extent, famous "tubes" utililized by Roland Plocher for giant volumes such as the lakes). Just as Plocher fresh water, they support the vital processes, but they have an action much stronger, and allow a permanent basic salary, by more durably supplementing the stimulation impelled by the tool on support powders. Their lifespan is very significant.

The number of sticks according to the volume of the aquarium :

For 15 liters 1 stick
For 60 liters 2 sticks
For 100 liters 3 sticks
For 200 liters 5 sticks
For 300 liters 8 sticks
For 400 liters 10 sticks
For 500 liters 12 sticks
For 600 liters 13 sticks
For 900 liters 14 sticks
For 1 200 liters 15 sticks

To perfect the action

hw 4131 Plocher anti algae (silica)
Slow down the development of the algae
Price: 28.50 € Gross weight: 220

hw 4132 Plocher Anti Algae (silica)
Slow down the development of the algae
Price: 14.00 € Gross weight: 70

hw 4231 Plocher anti Mud (Silica)
Support the decomposition of the organic matter
Price: 28.50 € Gross weight: 220

hw 4232 Plocher anti mud
Support the decomposition of the organic matter
Price: 14.00 € Gross weight: 70

hw 4031 Plocher Water surface (Silica)
Oxygenate water
Price: 28.50 € Gross weight: 220

hw 4032 Plocher Water surface (Silica)
Oxygenate water
Price: 14.00 € Gross weight: 70

Information is made available on quartz powder. It makes it possible to regulate the problems involved in eutrophication (lack of oxygen, proliferation of algae, unbalances cycles of transformation of the organic matter). This speciality is intended initially for the treatment of large water parts, such as ponds and lakes.

Hg 3131 Plocher plants P (Dolomite)
Optimize the development of the plants, activates chlorophyl
Price: 19.00 € Gross weight: 150

hq 5112 Plocher Sea water (CaCo3)
Cleared up water, optimizes the operation of the aquariums
Price: 14.90 € Gross weight: 50

hq 5132 Plocher Sea water (CaCo3)
Cleared up water, optimizes the operation of the aquariums
Price: 67.50 € Gross weight: 220

hq 5111 Stick Sea water
Cleared up water, optimizes the operation of the aquariums
Price: 6.50 € Gross weight: 10

hw 4331 Plocher anti phosphates (silica) fresh water - sea water
Degrade phosphates
Price: 35.00 € Gross weight: 220

hw 4334 Plocher anti nitrates (silica) fresh water - sea water
Degrade nitrates
Price: 35.00 € Gross weight: 220

2124 food Complement fish
Reinforce the vitality of fish
Price: 15.00 € Gross weight: 50

food 35 for fish between 3 and 5 cm
Reinforce the vitality of fish
Price: 19.50 € Gross weight: 180

food 510 for fish between 5 and 10 cm
Reinforce the vitality of fish
Price: 19.50 € Gross weight: 180

This information comes from the French website for econature:

http://econature.fr/aquariophilie.htm

Amano is listed as the Japanese importer of Plocher products, so I'm guessing that his Penac W and Penac P are re-packaged version of a couple of the above products.

I wonder why he doesn't list/carry the sticks? Everything I've been able to find on theis System indicates that the sticks are an integral part of the trio (Plocher Sticks, Plocher W and Plocher P).

I couldn't see any listing for a US Importer, but there is a Canadian one - I've sent an e-mail asking for further information on availability and cost. But from everything I've seen online, ADA's pricing on Penac P and Penac W seems fair and reasonable.

Sorry for the length of the post.

James Purchase
Toronto

Laith

I was reading through that site and just a clarification and more info (I do speak French):

WasserKat is some type of "anti-calcaire" system. This is supposed to reduce the build-up of calcium deposits in your water pipes. It works by "acting on the crystalline structure of minerals. This transformation limits the adherence and incrustation of minerals in all your pipes and any equipment using water".

So that is not specifically made for aquariums.

The system for fresh water aquariums is composed of the sticks and what they call "Plocher fresh water" additive.

The fresh water additive (along with the sticks), does the following: "We use Calcium Carbonate, a natural mineral, to receive natural micro-vibration information to support natural auto-regeneration and biological processes. This micro-vibration information tends to regenerate the environment in which they are used by putting them in harmony with their energy message".

After adding the sticks (on top of the substrate, not buried in it) and treating with the additive for a couple of weeks, they strongly recommend adding all of the following products:

- Anti-algae
- Anti-Phosphate
- Anti-Nitrate
- Anti-Turbidity
- Anti-Surface Film

So why use the sticks and additive in the first place??

Here's another tidbit: "All Plocher products must be stored on a wood support, far from any electromagnetic interference".

And for info, Plocher also makes a fish food additive, Plocher t, which is an "intelligent/informed powder" which allows fish to "better assimilate" their food.

Well, I find all of this very amusing. Does it work? I can't say as I've never tried it...

One thing I have to say: Hats off to Mr. Plocher! he has apparently made a business out of this stuff.

plantbrain

Sorry, I still feel as Robert Hudson does about this.

You can tell quickly if someone has done the science and if the product works, they give data and it shows consistent effectiveness.

They waffle around the issue all through their comments.

Bio cycling in an aquatic ecosystem is something I have professional, academic and hobby based experience in specifically related to water treatments and aquatic plants.

I'd welcome any real data, thus far, I have yet to see a single bit.
We have folks come around and try and sell the state of CA snake oil every so often to kill weeds or algae. I end up doiung the research to see if it works or not.

Why I am harsh on it?

This product line preys on ignorance, suspicion and people's attitudes, not if it's truly effective or not based on data.

If they had the data, they'd proudly display it.
That's a solid sale. If you don't have any data, then you have to work on the sales.

I demand data for things being used here in CA to control these pest. No data, no support, does not make sense on a critical level, don't even bother.

Regards,
Tom Barr

plantbrain

Grey Coast Calcite= Onyx sand
Same stuff

Raises KH, has iron etc.

I use it in Marine, AF rift and FW.


Regards,
Tom Barr