niko

I had the opposite experience of the one taslixado desribes.

My substrate consisted of worm castings mixed with pumice and laterite. I boiled the castings exactly as the origianl Brazilian site suggested.

The top layer was about 1 inch of inert gravel.

I checked the P and N in the water right after filling up the tank as well as in the course of the next few weeks. They were always 0.

10 gal tank, 2.6 wpg, KH=2-3 and pH = 7.0.

The tenellus, Hygro polysperma, and the Java Fern in that tank did not grow at all for about 3 months (at which point I tore the tank down). Granted I had too little CO2, but there was no growth whatsoever in that tank. I don't know what to think because the plants developed good roots.

Uprooting did not raise the N or P.

--Nikolay

Raul-7

The problem is that the amount of nutrients in humus differ from soil to soil. So the question, is how much NPK and other nutreints, does the humus Enrico uses have?

Justin Fournier

The sole reason I never got into using OM is the total disaster they can create given the uprooting of a plant with a healthy root mass. One could use potting soil really if you weren't concerned with you tank becoming a mud puddle every time you disturb anything.

Anyone else care about water clairity?

plantbrain

Algae grows just fine at high or low levels of macro nutrients except NH4.

DON and DOP are another matter completely.
Organic forms are much easier for algae to use and these levels can be far below any detection testing method you have available just about anywhere in the USA, Asia or Europe. Periphyton matts can grow quite healthy when a Lamott test kit say 0.0ppm.
This is not something I've seen, or speculate, this is fact and we have seen this in the Everglades with mountains of research and field testing to support it.

Big water changes are not a bad thing. They remove this Organically bound component.

As far as the worm castings giving you issues: the boiling should oxidize most of the NH4, which is the only real component that might cause any problems.

After all, I can add everything else, NO3, PO4, K, traces, CO2, light etc far beyond limiting conditions and no algae.

What does worm castings have that soil or dirt does not as far as minerals and nutrients
Nothing.

I got a wooden nickle says boiled dirt will do the same thing.
Or most any other compost material with high NPK.

Plants all use the same stuff, folks.
There's no secreat method about that.

You can remove the NH4 a number of ways, but eventually you will need to add some N, P, K, etc to the substrate. We also don't seem to know the water quality of their tap water either................

I had high PO4, a friend in Demark had high NO3/PO4. Not knowing that might lead us to conclude we don't need any N and/or P etc.....

I used RFUG with nothing in the substrate and made nice tanks also, so is it a method or is it the aquarist?

Keep these ideas in mind when you consider other methods or have problems with yours.

Otherwise you'll end chasing some method every few weeks/month/year and not work on the basics of plant metabolism, all plants need these nutrients to grow. That does not change.

Where you want to put them is up to you.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Raul-7

But Tom, I thought plants do mcuh better when they get some nutrients from the substrate? Plus limiting NPK to the substrate limits algae...

cS

Algae requires MUCH MUCH MUCH less nutrients than plants. The leaching of nutrients is enough to sustain an algae population. In fact, even if there's no leaching, the mere presence of fish and decaying matter in the tank is enough to feed algae. While we don't know exactly why a properly maintained tank does not foster algae, we do know that limiting macronutrients isn't one of them.

Let's take PO4 for example, tsunami, myself, and many others keep PO4 nearer to 2 ppm and dose macros exclusively via the water column, and algae is not a problem for us unless we slack off and allow the plants to suffer in health. Then, the algae creeps in. Tom often preaches that the goal should be to grow plants, NOT how to kill algae. There is truth to that statement because algae will recede significantly when plants are healthy. Algae will never disappear altogether, but enough as to not bother all but the most anal of aquarists.

bobo

<<Tom often preaches that the goal should be to grow plants, NOT how to kill algae. There is truth to that statement because algae will recede significantly when plants are healthy. Algae will never disappear altogether, but enough as to not bother all but the most anal of aquarists. >>

About the only element I've added, in appropriate/reasonable amounts mind you, to the water column which has noticeably increased algae growth is iron.

I've therefore started shoving Fe into the soil around the roots and noticed a definite improvement. But which plants?, one might well ask, as many reddish stem plants seem to have little in the way of a root system which which to absorb iron via the substrate. Eusteralis may be an exception here.

Algae is like cancer, in that there are many, many types and I wonder if some have anything more in common with one another than the label "algae".

There seem to be some forms, certain BBA and coarse green hair, for instance that seem to have evolved to take full advantage of just the conditions some of us try so hard to provide for our flashy, mostly stem type plants, high light, high nutrients and ... CO2? Naw, Co2 seems to help plants and hurt BBA. That green hair I'm not sure about, but that one I know loves Fe.

These are the algae that most bother me when they show up and the ones I've heard most folks complain about. That's provided we are, in fact, all describing the same algae -- one can never be entirely sure in that respect. It's really only when these algae occur in ridiculous, rapidly increasing amounts that they become a problem.

Why is it that only sometimes, or only in some tanks, that the little bit of BBA inconspicuously hanging out in the back of the tank, usually attached only to some inert object suddenly explodes into life, multiplying, attaching itself suddenly to only the most beautiful of plant leaves and generally making a pest out of itself in rapid order?

How come the tank right next to it, one with almost the exact same parameters and composition, can at the same time, have no algae?

That is the weird part...

All things considered though, I think Tom's approach to be the best philosophy overall-- pay attention to the plant's needs and concentrate on growing them well and in abundance. When one does that, at some point algae usually ceases to be much of a problem.

If one wishes to take direct action against the algae as well, it will be a combination of many little things, water changes, pulling off the algae manually, constantly harassing the algae in many ways, which will ultimately yield the best result. It's not about some magic bullet or single product or treatment alone, it's best fought mainly as a war of attrition.

Bobo in South Florida

tsunami

That's interesting, Bob. Ever since I've been adding more iron, I've been noticing a decrease in algae.

Plants seem to grow differently in different tanks. Some tanks seem to need more iron than others to get going. I just dial in my numbers for PO4 and NO3 for each tank, but the iron/trace dosing takes a while to play with and fine tune for each one.

Carlos

Xema

I don´t understand the meaning of "earthworm castings", but i normally use in my sustrates that in Spain we name "earthworm composed". It´s a very rich black sustrate result to the action of earth worm on the vegetal brush in the sustrate. I think that speak of the same...

I use mix this composed with red clay, vermiculite, blond peat, a regular gravel or river sand. And i put it on the bottom, i cover it with a plastic mesh and a regular sand layer to protec the mix.

The result is very good, and i dont´add liquid ferts

Check for see pics

In followings 2 month, it´s produced a big explosion of algae, but only 2 month during.

This is the finel result



Greetings

niko

Xema,

The worm castings are exactly what you describe - basically the waste that worms produce after feeding on organic matter.

Your web site is very interesting. I personally find the use of the mesh between the inert gravel and the rich substrate to be a great idea. The weaving of Java Moss around a thread and then wrapping it on a branch is very clever!

Also this picture of the paludarium with the emersed Java Fern is very beautiful.

How much light do you have over the cube tank with the Chocolate gouramies?

--Nikolay