bencozzy

ok just did a tank yesterday with AS 2 and cloudiness isnt nearly that bad just a slight milky look, did you fill it up slowly and have a plate or empty bag over the substrate as to not stir it up?

fill tank slightly with water plant and flatten substrate then finish filling to help reduce cloudiness.

Homer_Simpson

I guess everybody's experience is different. Below is a picture, which I posted already but am posting again to show that there was virtually no cloudiness the first day of setting up this 15 gallon high tank with AS II. I was even able to clearly see the reflection of some of the plants inside the tank glass after I filled it full of water, something that would be difficult with a cloudy tank. I used a $1 strainer from the dollar shop and used Seachem Purigen in my Aquaclear HOB 150 filter. Perhaps, this is why I did not experience cloudiness. Despite this, I still continued with frequent weekly water changes to get rid of any excess ammonia in the tank. Lol, the last thing I needed was a major algae bloom due to high ammonia levels after I spent a fortune on the AS II.

Leonard

I had no problem with cloudiness when I started this first tank.
Here is it about 1 day after I filled up the tank:
I used a plate, when filling up water. If I wouldn't the whole AS should have blown up into the tank... It is a really light substrate which almost floats up by itself!

I have about 50ppm nitrate in my water now =) Have to change even more water probobly. I have already changed about 50% every day for 1 week, but I belive I have to do one more...

mats808

I was reading this thread and wanted to say that I do not believe that amazonia or amazonia II hardens the water. According to everything I've read it will soften the water (reduce hardness). I'm not sure how much it will actually soften the water but that is what ADA claims. It also seems more logical that ADA would want a water softening soil vs one that hardens the water.

I also noticed that everyone is saying that amazonia and amazonia II leach ammonia into the water. Does it really? Is anyone sure of this?

aaron

Ebichua

The ammonia bleeding out of the substrate ONLY occurs when you...

A: First start out with the substrate. The substrate will leak out ammonia but that's actually a good thing, because this allows you to cycle the tank WITHOUT the need of an ammonia source. The soil carries it already. It took about 3 weeks for me to cycle 2 bags and a half of Amazonia II.

And...

B: If you stir up the soil too much POST cycling, you can cause an ammonia spike. But of course, this happens to all substrates, amazonia aquasoil or not, you will get some kind of spike if you stir your substrate too much. Whether it be regular gravel, EC, flourite and what not.

mats808

So are you saying that if I put a little aquasoil into a clean glass of water ammonia will leach out? Is this written anywhere by ADA......on their website, pamphlets, etc? Did anyone hear Mr. Amano mention this in one of his presentations? I would think that if a company put out a gravel that leached ammonia they would definitely mention that somewhere in their literature. The bag might even say, "warning, this product leaches ammonia." How much ammonia are we talking about? If you filled a 55 gallon tank with 3 inches of gravel would there be 1 ppm, 10 ppm, 100 ppm of ammonia?

Tex Gal

What's the argument here? Anyone that has used this stuff has VERY high ammonia issues for several weeks. I have used it in 3 different tanks. All had added mulm, seasoned filters, I even wrapped the hardscape that wouldn't fit in buckets of water to keep the nutrifying bacteria alive. . I used 50% of the old water. My tank was packed with plants, mostly fast growing stem plants! Sometimes the ammonia spikes even last up to 6 weeks. My ammonia readings were darker than the colors on my test kit paper.

Most of us are not scientists. We don't do double blind studies. We post here our experiences. There are threads and threads of empirical evidence on this forum and others. It sounds like you are arguing this point... If you want scientific evidence feel free to go at it!

Ebichua

There is no warning label, but I think it is mentioned somewhere, I just can't pin-point it out. These products are made in Japan, not in the U.S. so with that in mind, you must accept the fact that their laws about this stuff may vary from our own.

But in any case, when I filled up my 40G breeder with 3 in in the front and 4 in the back (Sloped), my ammonia shot to about 2+ I think. It was in the dark green zone on my API test kit. It was enough ammonia for me to cycle without adding anything to the tank. All I did was throw in a used filter, planted the plants I bought for it and waited for 3 weeks. Now it's doing fantastic and I haven't had any problems with it.
Although, during my 2nd week (ammonia was gone but there was still some nitrite), I threw in a few amano shrimp. The water was too rich in nutrients, I guess, and began growing some hair/fuzz algae on my rocks. My amanos quickly ate that all up within the week and had no shrimp losses.

mats808

Thanks Ebichua. That's very interesting.

Tex Gal I'm sorry if I gave you the impression that Im trying to argue with you or anyone for that matter. I just found it very strange that anyone would put out a product that leaches any considerable amount of ammonia.

Do you guys think that rinsing the substrate before use will alleviate this problem (I know the "instuctions" say not to rinse). The reason I ask this is that it seems that everyone is saying that it only occurs at the initial setup and then eventually the ammonia problem goes away. I guess this is my point: do you think that the problem goes away because the ammonia is being broken down once the tank gets established or does the aquasoil stop leaching the ammonia?

In other words, if you were to take gravel from a 4 month old tank and put it into a brand new tank with no fish do you guys think that there would still be an ammonia spike? If the answer is no then thoroughly rinsing it may help considerably. If you think yes then this is a major flaw of the product. That would mean that basically you should keep very few fish if any at all in the aquarium. The reason I say this is that with the fish and the substrate consistently adding ammonia to the system nitrates would build up pretty quickly in an established tank. Basically you could be overstocking without really overstocking.

I am using amazonia II to grow some Cryptocoryne cordata 'Rosanervig' and some other rare plants. The reason I am concerned and decided to ask the question is that some of my plants are in pots with my wild pair of Betta macrostoma. For those who are unfamiliar with this particular fish, wild stock is very expensive ($200-300/pair) and they are known to be quite sensitive to "dirty water" (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates). Hopefully in my case it doesn't matter too much because the amount of amazonia II in the few pots I have is very little compared to a 3-4 inch layer covering the entire bottom.

anyways, sorry for the long message, and sorry again if I offended anyone,
aaron

Ebichua

Rinsing the substrate does nothing. The ammonia literally leaks out of the soil so doing a few rinses don't do anything because the leak will still continue. The soil NEEDS to be cycled in order for it to work. I have read that you need to do 90-100% water changes for the first few days when using amazonia aquasoil. Personally, I didn't follow it. A. Because it was too much work, B. It wasted a TON of water and C. It ruined my aquascape too much (which in turn, makes more work). So no, rinsing the substrate won't do a thing to its ammonia leakage.

Once the leak is over, aquasoil will no longer throw out ammonia. I know this because I just recently bought an established tank (8 months running). The tank included Amazonia soil and whatever plants it came in with. When I first transferred it into my house, the water the seller could not remove from the tank did turn brown and dirty. When I got home, I tried to drain the rest of the dirty water and filled it up again. I tested water and I did get some signs of ammonia. That occured day 1. On day 2, when the water finally cleared up, I tested the water again. Ammonia was at 0. Thus, concluding that the ammonia sprung up only because debris and junk was flying around. (The tank I bought was previously a CRS tank, if that helps any)
As long as you don't turn the water into mud water, which is by slushing the pots and tank water around, then you're completely safe. Aquasoil Amazonia (I and II) is by far, my favorite substrate. Works fantastic with plants, lowers my PH and gives off a very natural look to it. Aquasoil is now the only substrate I will ever use in my future tank set-ups