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Old 07-22-2005, 11:10 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laith
I wonder if the addition of driftwood releases tannins that interfere with the KH/pH/CO2 measurement/relationship and therefore we actually get lower CO2 levels than we think we have?

This then induces BBA and you assume that its directly related to the wood?

Just a thought...
Perhaps some.

I see BBA, I add more CO2/stablize the CO2 etc, the BBA goes away.

Regards,
Tom Barr
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Old 07-23-2005, 11:27 AM   #22 (permalink)
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This is becoming a very interesting discussion.

Update on the tank status: The plants are pearling more than ever before. The fish are not dying anymore and they seem less stressed for oxygen. I have slowly raised the bubble rate even more now to 3bps and have a PH that starts around 6.57 when the lights come on hits a low of about 6.35 by the end of the day when the lights go out. So by the charts the C02 is from about 23ppm to about 40ppm. It's too early to tell on the BBA growth, but I think in time it will subside. I'll be trimming off the affected leaves again and removing as much of the stuff that I can again. I'll probably try another group of 4 SAE's since the last batch died and perhaps 50 more Amanos to add to the 12 or so that I already have in there-those stocking levels seem about right for a 120 gallon?. The cheapest I can find the Amanos are about $2 a piece. It will really add up so I'm trying to find an even better deal if anyone knows of one. As far as the SAE's I've never kept them in such acidic conditions before. The lowest PH ever being 6.7-6.8 Is it wise to put this fish in these acidic conditions?
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Old 07-23-2005, 12:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I have not had any problems keeping SAE's in a PH of 6.0-6.5.

$2 ea seems to be a reasonable price for Amano's, although someone here may know where you can get them cheaper.



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Old 07-23-2005, 03:38 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Well that's good to hear. I think the first batch died because of the low DO levels I suspect. Anyone know of any other fish besides SAE that is just as affective? Those Roseline sharks have caught my eye. They look like a colorfull versions of the SAE, but I don't know if they are as effective- anyone have any experience with these?
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Old 07-23-2005, 05:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magicmagni
This is becoming a very interesting discussion.

Update on the tank status: The plants are pearling more than ever before. The fish are not dying anymore and they seem less stressed for oxygen. I have slowly raised the bubble rate even more now to 3bps and have a PH that starts around 6.57 when the lights come on hits a low of about 6.35 by the end of the day when the lights go out. So by the charts the C02 is from about 23ppm to about 40ppm. It's too early to tell on the BBA growth, but I think in time it will subside. I'll be trimming off the affected leaves again and removing as much of the stuff that I can again. I'll probably try another group of 4 SAE's since the last batch died and perhaps 50 more Amanos to add to the 12 or so that I already have in there-those stocking levels seem about right for a 120 gallon?. The cheapest I can find the Amanos are about $2 a piece. It will really add up so I'm trying to find an even better deal if anyone knows of one. As far as the SAE's I've never kept them in such acidic conditions before. The lowest PH ever being 6.7-6.8 Is it wise to put this fish in these acidic conditions?
Well, red cherry shrimps are traded for plants and they can be bred in our tanks, join SFBAAPS and you can reap such benefits.
So they are pretty much free for plant trades favors etc.

We are having an OH coming this next Sunday around 5-6 pm and then (July 31st) and then heading over to see the new ADA Aqua Forest store in Japan town.

You are welcomed to come.
Mike got CaCl2, MgSO4 for his GH and 2 lbs of KH2PO4 for free, I got 6-8 cherry shrimps, other folks got a to of weeds, more will be had at the meeting.

We've kept SAE's at 6.0, KH of 1 no issues.
They are quite tough unless they do not have enough O2.

www.sfbaaps.com


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Tom Barr
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Old 07-23-2005, 06:22 PM   #26 (permalink)
 
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I would just like to chime in here to say I have the same problems and in the same situation as magic.

I bassicly tore everything down. Changed the top layer of gravel, boiled and scrubbed my driftwood, trimmed off all leaves with bba on them. I then upped my co2 till my fish were gasping for air. Within a week the bba was comming back. I decided today to clean out my canister filter figuring alot of the bba spores where living in there. This was a bad mistake. I ended up releasing so much free floating gunk into my water cleaning the canister that within two hours green dust and bba and thread algae doubled in the tank.

Now it looks like I have to tear my tank down and clean everything again.
I've dealt with bba for a long time now. What I have figured out is bba loves nothing more then alot of free floating debree in your tank. Try your hardest to keep your water crystal clear, and do alot of smaller water changes rather then huge ones once or so a week. Try not to stur up too much crap when planting and stuff.
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Old 07-23-2005, 07:38 PM   #27 (permalink)
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All I can say Jay is that it's frustrating, but if you stick with it you'll get there eventually. As you read in my case the C02 wasn't really what I thought it was. Perhaps the same for you? If the plants are not pearling then maybe there is not enough C02? If fish seem stressed you can do what I did and put on some airbubbles. That and not running any Co2 at night seems to allow you to push the limits more- at least that's been my observation.
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Old 07-25-2005, 08:55 AM   #28 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain
Are you insane?
Maybe, but what does that have to do with anything?

I'll concede that you have experience with a broader range of water sources than I assumed. But I still think there are local variations to be taken into account, and that longer experience with those sources will reveal their effects.

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Old 07-26-2005, 12:55 AM   #29 (permalink)
 
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Not with BBA it doesn't.
It's CO2.

It's repeatable and you can induce it by doing that.

I was just like these folks 12 years ago with BBA.
Steve and about 3 other folks messed with limiting BBA, with NO3, PO4 etc, you cannot do it. Neil Frank was and perhaps is still obssessed with BBA after 15 years. I spent about 1 year being very annoyed.

Adding good CO2 took care of the BBA and has every single time is a dozen or more wide ranging tap water types. I've never had it since unless the CO2 dropped.

Every time is every case the results have been the same.

You can speculate all day long or you can test and do it critically and actually get somewhere rather than hit or miss guessing.

If you do not trust me, fine test it yourself. The test is repeatable and easy to see after a week or two.

I did not trust other folks so I tested things myself back then and still do today.

BTW, I am insane.

Regards,
Tom Barr
















Regards,
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Old 07-26-2005, 05:39 AM   #30 (permalink)
 
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Maybe.

We just moved from Austin to Kerrville, so I need to futz with things a while with this new water. In Austin, the water comes out of the tap at pH 10.0 but settles back to about 7.6 as it takes on CO2 from the atmosphere. A moderate CO2 bubble rate (one bubble/second/40 gallons) easily gets it to about 6.8. The Kerrville water stays above the chart (over pH 8.0) even with an aggressive CO2 bubble rate. If pH is the factor affecting BBA, then local water does have an effect. If it's total concentration of CO2, then maybe not, but I like my fish too. Seems like a lot of work to kill something that's easily avoided to begin with.

Also, your advice will be more helpful if you assume that the average planted tank keeper has only one show tank. No grow-out, breeding, or holding tanks, and no other science-guy equipment. Just one show tank where everything has to happen. Oh, and minimal futzing with the tank, like once a week with as little water changing as possible. But it has to look good.

TW

Last edited by TWood; 07-26-2005 at 07:05 AM..
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