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Old 03-14-2003, 02:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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HEY, THIS TOPIC IS NOT AS LONG AS IT SEEMS!

MY QUESTIONS ARE BELOW AND ALL THE REST ARE TECHNICAL DATA AND SOME OTHER NOTES!

Hi, everybody!

I've an 96 l. aquarium (80 l. real capacity, about 21 gallons). The technical data are in the end of this message. And my plan to made the change is in the middle.

The doubts I have are:

-I plan to plant the old plants (the list is lower) and Cabomba caroliniana, Myriophillum aquaticum and some common others).

-My old gravel under few cm. has fertilized gravel. If I remove it into the water, that will release nutrients. So maybe it should be very much food for the new plants and it could start an algae boom.

-When you use "turba" (that kind of organic ground) do you have "coffee" water always? Even if the turba is under gravel?

-Will that big change in my aquarium break the ecologic balance and cause a disaster?

-Should I put on the new 36 w. or should I make it step by step? Which one should be the first to be added and how many hours a day and during how many days?

MY AQUARIUM NOW
===============

Well, I've just a 18 w. 11/860 Osram tube right now. I know it's very poor lighting, but I had not time to improve it since now.

The plants I have are Vallisneria gigantea, Limnophila sesiliiflora, Egeria densa, Microsorum pteropus var. Windelow, Anubias barteri var. nana, Anubias barteri (with big wide leaves, I don´t remember the name of the variety), Ceratoperis thallicroides and a lot of Lemna minor.

My intention was to put 80 cm. of little fishes in the beginning, but as I saw how happy they seem to be just

- 2 Trichogaster leeri
- 2 Microgeophagus ramirezi
- 7 Rasbora heteromorpha

I decided to keep just them. Well, maybe I'll add a couple of Colisa lalia or a couple or three of another dwarf cichlids, but I'm not in a hurry with this idea.

So, as you could imagine, I need shaded still water, with floating plants for the T. leeri, well planted ground for the M. ramirezi and wide leaves plants for the R. heteromorpha (if I decide to try their reproduction in the future, putting the T. leeri into another aquarium first and lowing water hardness after).

I wonder if I could put all the fishes in another tank for some hours and after empty the planted tank. The steps I would follow would be:

-empty half of the planted tank
-remove half of the gravel and all the plants
-add a fertilized gravel and / or some "turba" (I don't know the word in English: it's that kind of ground used in gardens too with a lot of organic materia)
-remove a trunk I have that I think it's very big for that tank
-add the rest of the gravel
-plant the old plants and the new ones and clean all the rests of plants and another garbage
-let the filter go to clean little particles
-refill the tank, with old and new water, fifty-fifty (that means a 25% water change).
-add nutrients (I use PMDD "Hortrilón" + K + Mg)
-wait until the temperature is O.K. and begin fishes re-introduction

TECHNICAL DATA
==============

I'll try to finish my new DIY light system, and then, my aquarium technical data will be:

- 80 l. real capacity,(about 2 gallons? what's the difference between U.S. gallons and U.K. gallons?

- internal filter 400 l./h. Sicce (not a famous brand, but it works quiet and it fits my needs)

- heater RENA 100 w.

- Lighting: 54 w., with 3 tubes, all Sylvania-Osram, from front to back are Biolux 72/965, 11/860 and ?/840).

- reflected by mylar plastic into a cubic shape box

- cooled (for summer) with 2 PC fans (I made a mistake and I wrote first "PC speakers" ) 12 v. each, one to fan-in, and another fan-out

- plants feeding: DIY biologic CO2 (reaches up to 38 mg./l.), and PMDD ("Hortrilón" with K and Mg)

Well, that's all by now. Thanks a lot to read my post. If you have read it all, you are a very patient person!

I'm looking forward your answers.

My best regards!

HEY, THIS TOPIC IS NOT AS LONG AS IT SEEMS!

MY QUESTIONS ARE AT THE TOP AND ALL THE REST ARE TECHNICAL DATA AND SOME OTHER NOTES!

[This message was edited by Cyprinus on Mon March 17 2003 at 01:57 AM.]
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Old 03-14-2003, 02:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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HEY, THIS TOPIC IS NOT AS LONG AS IT SEEMS!

MY QUESTIONS ARE BELOW AND ALL THE REST ARE TECHNICAL DATA AND SOME OTHER NOTES!

Hi, everybody!

I've an 96 l. aquarium (80 l. real capacity, about 21 gallons). The technical data are in the end of this message. And my plan to made the change is in the middle.

The doubts I have are:

-I plan to plant the old plants (the list is lower) and Cabomba caroliniana, Myriophillum aquaticum and some common others).

-My old gravel under few cm. has fertilized gravel. If I remove it into the water, that will release nutrients. So maybe it should be very much food for the new plants and it could start an algae boom.

-When you use "turba" (that kind of organic ground) do you have "coffee" water always? Even if the turba is under gravel?

-Will that big change in my aquarium break the ecologic balance and cause a disaster?

-Should I put on the new 36 w. or should I make it step by step? Which one should be the first to be added and how many hours a day and during how many days?

MY AQUARIUM NOW
===============

Well, I've just a 18 w. 11/860 Osram tube right now. I know it's very poor lighting, but I had not time to improve it since now.

The plants I have are Vallisneria gigantea, Limnophila sesiliiflora, Egeria densa, Microsorum pteropus var. Windelow, Anubias barteri var. nana, Anubias barteri (with big wide leaves, I don´t remember the name of the variety), Ceratoperis thallicroides and a lot of Lemna minor.

My intention was to put 80 cm. of little fishes in the beginning, but as I saw how happy they seem to be just

- 2 Trichogaster leeri
- 2 Microgeophagus ramirezi
- 7 Rasbora heteromorpha

I decided to keep just them. Well, maybe I'll add a couple of Colisa lalia or a couple or three of another dwarf cichlids, but I'm not in a hurry with this idea.

So, as you could imagine, I need shaded still water, with floating plants for the T. leeri, well planted ground for the M. ramirezi and wide leaves plants for the R. heteromorpha (if I decide to try their reproduction in the future, putting the T. leeri into another aquarium first and lowing water hardness after).

I wonder if I could put all the fishes in another tank for some hours and after empty the planted tank. The steps I would follow would be:

-empty half of the planted tank
-remove half of the gravel and all the plants
-add a fertilized gravel and / or some "turba" (I don't know the word in English: it's that kind of ground used in gardens too with a lot of organic materia)
-remove a trunk I have that I think it's very big for that tank
-add the rest of the gravel
-plant the old plants and the new ones and clean all the rests of plants and another garbage
-let the filter go to clean little particles
-refill the tank, with old and new water, fifty-fifty (that means a 25% water change).
-add nutrients (I use PMDD "Hortrilón" + K + Mg)
-wait until the temperature is O.K. and begin fishes re-introduction

TECHNICAL DATA
==============

I'll try to finish my new DIY light system, and then, my aquarium technical data will be:

- 80 l. real capacity,(about 2 gallons? what's the difference between U.S. gallons and U.K. gallons?

- internal filter 400 l./h. Sicce (not a famous brand, but it works quiet and it fits my needs)

- heater RENA 100 w.

- Lighting: 54 w., with 3 tubes, all Sylvania-Osram, from front to back are Biolux 72/965, 11/860 and ?/840).

- reflected by mylar plastic into a cubic shape box

- cooled (for summer) with 2 PC fans (I made a mistake and I wrote first "PC speakers" ) 12 v. each, one to fan-in, and another fan-out

- plants feeding: DIY biologic CO2 (reaches up to 38 mg./l.), and PMDD ("Hortrilón" with K and Mg)

Well, that's all by now. Thanks a lot to read my post. If you have read it all, you are a very patient person!

I'm looking forward your answers.

My best regards!

HEY, THIS TOPIC IS NOT AS LONG AS IT SEEMS!

MY QUESTIONS ARE AT THE TOP AND ALL THE REST ARE TECHNICAL DATA AND SOME OTHER NOTES!

[This message was edited by Cyprinus on Mon March 17 2003 at 01:57 AM.]
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Old 03-17-2003, 12:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyprinus:
-My old gravel under few cm. has fertilized gravel. If I remove it into the water, that will release nutrients. So maybe it should be very much food for the new plants and it could start an algae boom.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I were you, I'd firstly siphon all the old fertilizers away and then add some new one.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyprinus:
-When you use "turba" (that kind of organic ground) do you have "coffee" water always? Even if the turba is under gravel?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

La palabra "turba" se llama "peat" en ingles.
(The word "turba" is "peat" in english.)

If you use peat under _gravel_ (not sand) it will most likely flow out of there.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyprinus:
-Will that big change in my aquarium break the ecologic balance and cause a disaster?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you do it in two parts, like you've planned, leaving about one week time in between, I don't believe it'll be disastrous.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyprinus:
-Should I put on the new 36 w. or should I make it step by step? Which one should be the first to be added and how many hours a day and during how many days?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again if I were you, I'd turn the lights on one or two tubes per week.
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Old 03-17-2003, 01:15 AM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Thank you very much for your help, Sami!

You've been the first one to reply this topic.

So if I use peat (thank you for the translation . Your Spanish is perfect!) I'll need to put a sand layer.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Sami:
If I were you, I'd firstly siphon all the old fertilizers away and then add some new one <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why? To avoid it to release nutrients to the water?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Cyprinus:
-Will that big change in my aquarium break the ecologic balance and cause a disaster? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sami:
If you do it in two parts, like you've planned, leaving about one week time in between, I don't believe it'll be disastrous. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
O.K.! In fact, I thought to put the fishes back inmediately after finishing. But it's better the way you say.

Why nobody didn't reply me before? Because it's a very long message, maybe.

It should be a little impressive when you click on it and there appears that long column... you could think "what does this guy really want to know?" and just go to read another message.

But I gave all that data to help you to reply me.

Thanks again, Sami. Have a nice day (what time should be in Finland now? It's 14:30 now in continental Spain...

Best regards

[This message was edited by Cyprinus on Mon March 17 2003 at 05:37 AM.]
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Old 03-17-2003, 01:44 AM   #5 (permalink)
 
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Maybe this topic would do better under the general section, as it is not really aquascaping! Would you like it moved there?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
-I plan to plant the old plants (the list is lower) and Cabomba caroliniana, Myriophillum aquaticum and some common others).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry I don't see the question here!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
-My old gravel under few cm. has fertilized gravel. If I remove it into the water, that will release nutrients. So maybe it should be very much food for the new plants and it could start an algae boom. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can you tell us what it is or what is in it?
Depending on what it is, it could cause a algae bloom!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
-When you use "turba" (that kind of organic ground) do you have "coffee" water always? Even if the turba is under gravel?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No it should not stain the water, if it does it will disappear with your water changes.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
-Will that big change in my aquarium break the ecologic balance and cause a disaster? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If you are removing all of the gravel, yes it could! If your filter works fine there should not be to much of a imbalance.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
-Should I put on the new 36 w. or should I make it step by step? Which one should be the first to be added and how many hours a day and during how many days?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I would get the tank settled down again before adding more light. 10 - 12 hours a day works good.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I wonder if I could put all the fishes in another tank for some hours and after empty the planted tank. The steps I would follow would be:

-empty half of the planted tank
-remove half of the gravel and all the plants
-add a fertilized gravel and / or some "turba" (I don't know the word in English: it's that kind of ground used in gardens too with a lot of organic materia)
-remove a trunk I have that I think it's very big for that tank
-add the rest of the gravel
-plant the old plants and the new ones and clean all the rests of plants and another garbage
-let the filter go to clean little particles
-refill the tank, with old and new water, fifty-fifty (that means a 25% water change).
-add nutrients (I use PMDD "Hortrilón" + K + Mg)
-wait until the temperature is O.K. and begin fishes re-introduction<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would do a minimum 50% water changes after, maybe 100% after a big job like that!

good luck
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Old 03-17-2003, 05:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
 
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyprinus:
So if I use peat (thank you for the translation . Your Spanish is perfect!) I'll need to put a sand layer.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If your point is to fertilize only the plants and to not make "black water" - yes it would be good idea to use sand instead of gravel IMHO.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cyprinus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Sami:
If I were you, I'd firstly siphon all the old fertilizers away and then add some new one <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Why? To avoid it to release nutrients to the water?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was my point. In my experience it will cause a massive bloom of nasty algae if you let the undergravel ferts. get free in the water.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Cyprinus:
Why nobody didn't reply me before? Because it's a very long message, maybe.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

(This is a little off the topic, should be directed more to the administration, but you skip this if you don't want to read it.)

As I'm more used to phpBB based forums, it's a bit strange to get used to this kind of one. I'm sure that I (and all others) will get used to this new one.

I'm still going to miss some features of the old forum, like "quote in quote".

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by Cyprinus:
Thanks again, Sami. Have a nice day (what time should be in Finland now? It's 14:30 now in continental Spain...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're welcome Have a nice day too. We in Finland are 2 hours ahead you.
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Old 03-17-2003, 10:18 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Sami and Cyprinus; Welcome to you both. Its always good to see new members from all different places.

Cyprinus,
Is there a reason you want to use the peat? It will soften the water, raise the acidity and can be a pain when replanting. When pulling up plants for moving or replanting, you'll be pulling the peat up as well. It should not cause an algae bloom, but it will cloud the water.

A better solution may be to use fertilizers in the substrate such as laterite, duplarite or flourish tabs. I use the flourish tabs and they are very hard. Even when disturbed they are not likely to release large amounts of nutrients into the water column.
---
A major rework of the tank like this will create a new biological cycle. I would plan on doing a full water change once you disturb the gravel. If you replant a large amount of plants or with some fast growers, the impact will be reduced while the tank recycles. Saving the water or some of the gravel will reduce the impact as well. Overall the cycle is not as important in a planted tank as opposed to a fish only tank.
---
Ekim is right. Your questions are more about tank setup than the plant design. You may want to have it moved to the general forum so more users will view it.
---
No need to add the lights right away. You'll already have a new biological cycle to stabilize, new water chemistry and new plants to get started. Adding light or excesive fertilizer too soon could cost more time than it saves.

James Hoftiezer

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Old 03-17-2003, 11:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Thank you very much to all of you, Ekim, James H. and Sami again!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Original posted by Ekim:
Maybe this topic would do better under the general section, as it is not really aquascaping! Would you like it moved there?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The title of the post is "Could you help me to aquascape my tank?". So that's I want to achieve. Anyhow, as it is a quite complex job, I get lost on my own message and I just make some questions about general changes in my planted aquarium.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Original posted by Cyprinus:
-I plan to plant the old plants (the list is lower) and Cabomba caroliniana, Myriophillum aquaticum and some common others).

Original posted by Ekim:
Sorry I don't see the question here!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well... As my original message was very long, I tried to put the nucleus at the top and the all the rest lower. But I made that mistake

The undergravel fertilizer I use in that tank, is "Terralite" (or something like that. It's a trademark, but, despite of I read the composition, I've forgotten it, as I was a beginner (like now with aquascaping) and I have not the package now).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Original posted by Cyprinus:
-Will that big change in my aquarium break the ecologic balance and cause a disaster?

Original posted by Ekim:
If you are removing all of the gravel, yes it could! If your filter works fine there should not be to much of a imbalance.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why? Because of the destruction of the colonies of Nitrobacter and Nitrosomonas living there?

Your advices gave me an idea: not to remove the gravel under the water, but fully empty the tank, carefully (for instance, with a spoon) remove half the gravel (the approximate undergravel fertilizer place), add the peat and the new ferts, put back the old gravel and put a new layer of 1'5 cm. of new and clean gravel. And to be specially careful when filling the tank again to avoid digging up the gravel.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I would get the tank settled down again before adding more light. 10 - 12 hours a day works good.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
How much time do you think will it spent to be settled down again?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Original posted by Sami:
(This is a little off the topic, should be directed more to the administration, but you skip this if you don't want to read it.)

As I'm more used to phpBB based forums, it's a bit strange to get used to this kind of one. I'm sure that I (and all others) will get used to this new one.

I'm still going to miss some features of the old forum, like "quote in quote".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
So do I! Even if I didn't knew that, I guess it's very useful!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Original posted by JamesHoftiezer:
Sami and Cyprinus; Welcome to you both. Its always good to see new members from all different places. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you very much! I wish to learn a lot of things in this forum to improve my tanks and to be able to help the other people.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Original posted by JamesHoftiezer:
Cyprinus,
Is there a reason you want to use the peat? It will soften the water, raise the acidity and can be a pain when replanting. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I read that it's a very good ground for our plants. In fact, some delicate Cryptocorines need them. I don't plan to plant such delicate ones, but I thought it is a good idea. So I plan to put both things: peat and fertilized gravel.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Original posted by JamesHoftiezer:
If you replant a large amount of plants or with some fast growers, the impact will be reduced while the tank recycles. Saving the water or some of the gravel will reduce the impact as well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes, that was my original idea! Maybe, it will be good to me to culture in another place the rests of L. sesiliiiflora and C. thallicroides after pruning and put in the tank by means of small flowerpots. And keep them for some days or weeks until the tank is settled down again.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Original posted by JamesHoftiezer:
Adding light or excesive fertilizer too soon could cost more time than it saves <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A good advice! Thanks!

Well, I will post a diagram with the layout of plants in my tank at the present moment and will wait for your commentaries.

Best regards.
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Old 03-18-2003, 12:19 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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This is the plants layout in my tank now:



My plans are:

-TO REMOVE:

- The half coconut on the left(with a hole. It was
prepared for a couple of kribs which I finally didn't put there. My fishes don't use it).

- The trunk in the middle(it's very big for that tank and reduces the space to plant a lot).

- The black stone on the right (it's some kind of "house" made by myself as a shelter for my Microgeophagus ramirezi couple. It's made from three black slate pieces, glued with non-toxic silicone. But they never use it).

TO PUT IN ANOTHER PLACE:

-The V. gigantea (I just planted one, but some runners developed after). I'll plant it on the right, at the back of the tank.

-The E. bleheri in the middle I'll put it on the place the half coconut shell was. It'll help to hide the internal filter.

-The A. barteri with wide leaves I'll shift it to the right, near the trunk was, to create an "atraction point".

-Maybe, I'll sink the C. thallicroides on the place the half coconut shell was (in this case, I'll put the E. bleheri which I talked about in the place the C. thallicroides was). May I bury its roots in the ground or attach it to some stone?

TO PLANT (NEW PLANTS):

- A group of Cabomba caroliniana just back of the word "Trunk", to create a very light contrast with the very similar L. sesiliiflora.

-Some H. polysperma back and left from Cabomba group.

TO ADD:

-Maybe, another trunk, but with the shape of a stick and placed in diagonal position. I'll attach to it some small M. pteropus var. Windelow.

And that's all by now, folks!

QUESTIONS:
[LIST]<LI>I see there's still a lot of space to plant. Will you help me to do it?

<LI>I would like to plant a wide leaf Cryptocorine, but an easy species, with not very hard needs. Which one do you think will fit that profile? I wish it to be a front plant, so it'll be not very high.

<LI>Which are your suggestions for my aquascape project?

Thanks for your replies.

With my best regards.
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Old 04-07-2003, 02:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Hey, I don't believe anybody has not any idea to advise me!

I've already removed the trunk and the tank looks much clear.

I'm just waiting to have some new plants (a friend of mine will send them by mail from another town, but she's a very busy girl, so she never has got time to prepare the package).

And to install my new lighting. Do you think that, if I install new fluorescents and, at the same time I plant a lot of new plants it will avoid an algae bloom?

Thank you very much for your replies (I'm looking forward to them ).

Just say NO to war.
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